Government Operations Committee on Sept. 12th, 2024

[Thomas Clark]

No.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay. What's the cost and what are you paying, Mr. Clark? The difference is being paid by someone, and that someone is Canadian taxpayers, so it's being subsidized by the Government of Canada. Is that correct?

[Thomas Clark]

No, it's not correct. I pay what the department asks me to pay. I have no role in negotiating that. That's in the terms of my employment.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Who pays the rest? Your answer was $1,800, so Canadians are subsidizing you to the tune of $40,200, I think.

It's unbelievable when you look at the context. This fall one in four Canadians is relying on food banks to feed their families. Do you think it is acceptable to Canadians that they're subsidizing your rent during a housing and homelessness crisis in our country and that you're getting a rent subsidy of more than $40,000 per month paid for by Canadian taxpayers?

[Thomas Clark]

Look, I don't understand your numbers. We're returning more than $7 million to Canadian taxpayers. That's the important number in here.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

You couldn't do that for less than $40,000 a month in rent? Is that your contention?

[Thomas Clark]

I don't know where this $40,000 comes from. Perhaps you could explain that to me.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I did, sir. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. It was very straightforward. Under the terms Canadians would have to enter into to live in the kind of place they're furnishing you with, the price would be more than $42,000 a month just for the cost of the residence, to say nothing of the taxes and the amounts they would have to pay for utilities. You're paying only $1,800 a month. Is there anywhere else on Billionaires' Row that you can rent for $1,800 a month?

Let's see if that makes it easier for you to understand the difference for Canadians. Is there anywhere else? Are any of your neighbours able to pay $1,800 a month?

[Thomas Clark]

As I have said from the beginning, I'm not in real estate. I don't go around asking people what they pay in rent. I would not be very helpful to you in that regard.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I question your helpfulness on a range of things. Certainly it's not present in these responses.

Just quickly, UN Ambassador Bob Rae has an apartment in the same building as your old residence. Is Mr. Rae's apartment larger than your apartment?

[Thomas Clark]

I have no idea.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Did the UN ambassador previous to Mr. Rae occupy the unit that was assigned to you?

[Thomas Clark]

The unit that was assigned to me at 550 Park Avenue was occupied by the previous UN ambassador.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Do you know why they were switched?

[Thomas Clark]

When Ambassador Rae came here, both were available. Both are properties belonging to Global Affairs Canada.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Does his unit need major upgrades that would necessitate a move as well?

[Thomas Clark]

No.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Why is that? Was it brought up? Is it your understanding that it has full accessibility per Canadian standards?

[Thomas Clark]

That's my understanding, but I'm no expert on the rules of accessibility. My understanding is that the property was maintained and renovated and that it is up to code.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

That's interesting.

They made a $9-million offer on this luxury condo. The appraisal was done on May 9, but you visited it on April 26. Why were you visiting a condo that an offer had been made on but that hadn't been appraised? How was the price arrived at? I know you're not an expert in real estate, but wouldn't you get it appraised before you made an offer?

[Thomas Clark]

I will tell you what I said in my opening statement: I had nothing to do with this process first, middle or last.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Mr. Clark, you're Justin Trudeau's nine-million-dollar man. Canadians don't know what extra value they're getting for this $9 million, and frankly, your answers today do nothing to assuage the concerns of Canadians who are struggling just to feed themselves.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mr. Barrett.

Mr. Sorbara, welcome to OGGO. You have five minutes. Go ahead, please, sir.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Good morning to my colleagues. I hope you and your respective families are doing well.

Welcome, Consul General, to OGGO and to this committee here.

Consul General, I at one time in my life lived in New York City for a period of about seven years.

To Ms. Vignola, I thank you for sharing your thoughts on the day of September 11. I was there that day. I'm a September 11 survivor. It is etched in my memory 23 years later and it will always be a part of me. I send my prayers and thoughts to those families who no longer have those loved ones with them and those bright futures that are no longer here, whether they're from Cantor Fitzgerald or from other firms that occupied the floors.

Mr. Consul General, I want to start my comments by apologizing. I think the word “liar” has been used today by some of my honourable colleagues. I've sat on committees and I've been in Parliament for the last nine years, and when we invite witnesses—whether they are from business, academia or non-profit groups, or whether they are consuls general like you—I always become dismayed when parliamentarians use that type of language. I personally think doing that is undignified and unnecessary and does not add anything in terms of parliamentary decorum.

As a member of the Canada-U.S. Inter-Parliamentary Group and as someone from a riding that is very much occupied with trade and investment with the United States, I would say we have no stronger relationship than the one we have with the United States of America. Every day, $3 billion of trade and services go back and forth over our borders. New York state has an economy larger than that of most countries in the world and would be probably in the G10, if I'm not mistaken, and obviously we need to leverage that relationship.

The sale of the initial apartment is obviously going to bring in more proceeds than the purchase of the other apartment. I know it's basic math, which may not get across to some of my colleagues, but when you sell something for more than you buy something else for, there's actually what's called a surplus, and the net proceeds are coming into the government. I applaud the government for doing that.

One of the things I do want to say to you, Consul General, is that the nexus of New York city and those relationships that exist and the two-way trade that goes back and forth between the United States and Canada are immensely important in terms of finance, business, commerce for the Canadian economy, the standard of living and jobs. If you could just touch on that, that would be great.

Thank you.

[Thomas Clark]

I will do it as efficiently as I can.

I just want to take one quick moment to thank Madame Vignola for her comments on September 11. I too was in New York that evening of September 11—not in the morning, but in the evening. Yesterday I attended a service of remembrance, along with members of the Toronto Police Service and the Barrie Police Service from Ontario, as well as our military attaché. It is part of the soul of New York, remembering September 11.

In terms of the importance to Canada, it cannot be overstated. New York city itself is not only the economic hub of the United States but also, in many ways, the economic hub of the world. Decisions that are taken here, directions that are taken here and opinions that are created here drive policy and drive wealth or poverty around the world. Where the opportunities are created is here in New York city. It is our job, therefore, to make sure that we seize the opportunities, create those opportunities and accelerate those opportunities for Canada.

As I said earlier, the whole purpose of somebody like me and this magnificent trade and investment division that we have here at the consulate is to create wealth and jobs for Canadians. That's it. That is the bottom line, and it happens here. It's not to say that there aren't other areas that are important as well—there are—but in many ways, all the money in the world is in New York city.