Government Operations Committee on Sept. 12th, 2024

[Thomas Clark]

I am, as you say, the wrong person to ask about history, but I can, perhaps, be helpful in talking about what I have been able to see during my time here, which is that when we invest in diplomacy we get results. When we do it properly, and that is to say efficiently, using money as wisely as we possibly can, it increases the effectiveness of what we are doing.

I really don't have many views. I haven't seen our other residences or offices. I did as a journalist when I travelled the world. I guess what I would say is that we are a G7 country. We are important on the world stage. We will be even more important on the world stage as we transition in many areas of production. I think we have to understand that, while our friends are our friends in the G20 and the G7, they're also our competitors in places like New York. They're after the same pie I'm after. We have to be nimble. We have to be effective. We have to do it as best we can, keeping the taxpayer in mind and understanding that the more efficient we can be, the better we are.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I appreciate that, Mr. Clark. I think the concept of efficiency is a challenging one when we're talking about what to many people seems like a luxury condo in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world.

I am interested in this comparison between Canada's representation in New York and that of our competitors, our peer countries, other G7 countries and beyond. You obviously visit the residences of other people in similar positions. How does Canada's representation in New York stack up when it comes to our peer countries?

[Thomas Clark]

I would say that, overall, we're probably lower middle in terms of our presence here. If you're looking at residences, recently the U.K. spent $22 million to buy its residence. I believe Italy spent $35 million. Yes, we have spent $9 million, but we are returning as much as $7 million, or perhaps even more, to the Canadian taxpayer. That has to be taken into account as well.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

In your introductory remarks, you mentioned emergency consular services, which is an aspect of the role you play and the role of this particular property, I understand. Could you expand on what those emergency services are and how it would work for someone who's in New York and requiring emergency consular services?

Would they visit the residence? Is it a property that accepts Canadian citizens who are in New York and in need of help? How does that work?

[Thomas Clark]

If you're in need of help in New York, the last thing you want to do is come to the residence. What you need is the help of our terrific consular team here.

As I said in my opening remarks, we have 300,000 Canadians who live here. We have thousands and thousands more who come to visit for Broadway or sports or just to see New York City. Some of them get into difficulty. We help them 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We help them with the authorities. We help them with lost passports. We help them get through what are very difficult times. I can tell you that our consular division here is superb. They offer services to Canadians that are indispensable to those who find themselves in difficulty in New York.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I don't doubt that they do. What I'm interested in is the specific role of the residence in providing those emergency consular services.

[Thomas Clark]

No, the residence does not play a role. We have many Canadians who come to the residence, but not Canadians who are in distress.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, gentlemen.

We'll now go to Mr. Brock. We'll start with our five-minute rounds.

Go ahead, Mr. Brock, please.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Mr. Clark, although you have not been sworn in or affirmed to tell the truth, every witness who testifies at a parliamentary committee is expected to tell the truth.

Have you, sir, told the truth to the committee so far?

[Thomas Clark]

I have, every word of it.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I have a package of emails from the government, emails from the chief of staff to the assistant deputy minister of Minister of Global Affairs Mélanie Joly of Trudeau's government. She wrote a summary of the $9-million condo purchase. The email states that both the consul general of New York and the head of mission—that's you, Tom Clark—“have been instrumental throughout this process,” with the head of mission—again, you, Mr. Clark—“providing the greenlight for the selection of the new residence.”

It is in writing by the department that Tom Clark—you, sir—was instrumental in the condo purchase on Billionaires' Row.

Again, Mr. Clark, when did you raise the need for a new residence with the Liberal government?

[Thomas Clark]

Mr. Chair, I will repeat: I had no role whatsoever in deciding to sell the old residence, in buying the new residence or in its amenities or its location. That email you're referring to has a couple of addendums to it that I think are important.

Number one, it was corrected. That was a person who was not involved in the process of this. I only became aware of this email less than 48 hours ago. I too was taken aback by what was in it because it was simply wrong. It wasn't true.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Mr. Clark, let me stop you right there. I don't believe you. Canadians don't believe you. Are you trying to suggest that a head of mission in any country in the world would be completely shut out, would be completely uninvolved with the acquisition of their own residence. No Canadian believes you, sir.

This was not a typo. This was a deliberate, focused sentence regarding your involvement. The timing, sir, is crucial. The email I referenced was sent out on June 17, 2024. The story of the $9-million condo on Billionaires' Row became known to the Canadian public on July 11. That was a huge embarrassment to the Canadian government, and I'm sure a huge embarrassment to you, Mr. Clark.

Your involvement was documented well before. We have the receipts. The department's pathetic attempt to cover up for you was issued on July 25, after all of the controversy and after all of the push-back from politicians and from Canadians, who are struggling to put a roof over their heads, who are lined up at food banks, who are starving. People who were going to the food banks were actually donating to the food banks, and you're sitting on Billionaires' Row sipping coffee from a $6,000 coffee machine. You can appreciate how appalling that is to Canadians.

Again, sir, I ask for honesty. When did you bring up the need for a new residence?

[Thomas Clark]

Mr. Chair, I will repeat once again, and please, if you wish, you can put me under oath for this. I had nothing to do with the decision to sell the old OR. I had nothing to do with the decision to buy the new OR. I had nothing to do with deciding on its amenities or its location.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

It's funny, Mr. Clark. Nineteen previous consuls general to New York, since 1961, all enjoyed the lavish amenities and the wonderful location in midtown Manhattan of the Park Avenue residence until you, sir, were appointed to the position. Within months, sir, of your being appointed to the position, and within months of Justin Trudeau's visiting you and your hanging out in a motorcade in downtown New York with streets closed, all of a sudden there's talk about a new residence and a push to get you into Billionaires' Row.

You said at the outset that you'd rather be in Central Park, and now you're overlooking Central Park. You got your wish, sir.

[Thomas Clark]

Mr. Brock, I am not overlooking Central Park. I am not in a tower.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, Mr. Clark, I have to interrupt. That is our time, but you'll probably have a chance to respond in our next intervention with Mr. Bains.

Mr. Bains, I'm going to assume you at least are in beautiful British Columbia.

Go ahead, sir.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Yes, I am. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Clark, for joining us today, and thank you for your service.

As you know, Richmond, British Columbia, is a border community and a hub for goods and travel across North America and the Asia-Pacific. The efficiency of the flow of goods and services is something that's critical to the growth of not only our city but also the wider B.C. economy and the Canadian economy.

How does your mission in New York facilitate trade relations between Canada and the United States?

We also share a coastline. Clean waterways are top of mind, and those kinds of conversations and dialogues need to happen. How involved are you in those conversations and the work that needs to be done there?

Before you get to your answer on that, you could clarify about the communiqué that was passed along, to which you said there were several amendments that were incorrect. Perhaps you can clarify that, and then, if you will, you can get to my question.

[Thomas Clark]

Sure. I just want to make it very clear, because I think we need to have facts on the table here. This new residence does not overlook Central Park. It is on the 11th floor and overlooks West 57th Street in New York City.

In terms of that email, as I said, I was only made aware of this less than 48 hours ago and was taken aback. It clearly didn't represent anything that was going on. In that package that you have, there is an explanation from Global Affairs Canada as to why that was incorrect and why that was publicly corrected. My testimony and that of GAC officials stands. Without question, I was not involved in any part of the process.

Getting to the core of your question of what we do, I'd like to point out that the way we facilitate trade is not just by sitting in New York City and talking to people here, although that's a very important part of what we do. It is also getting out into our territories, going into small towns, talking to the local chambers of commerce, talking to people on the streets and in coffee shops, letting them know who we are and finding out what they're thinking about.

Since I arrived here, I've conducted 14 such outreach visits throughout my territory, resulting in 70 different meetings, and I can tell you where they all were. Also, I've gone to Washington, D.C., a number of times, again, to speak to federal members who are in Washington who represent the area that I am responsible for. When I talk about facilitating trade, it is in terms of both trying to find for Canadian companies and trying to enable Canadian companies to find those investors here in New York who may be able to help them either expand in the United States or expand in Canada, creating jobs for Canadians.

Similarly, we deal with Americans who want to send money to Canada to build plants and create jobs for Canadians. Essentially, that is the core of what we're trying to do. We are trying not only to increase the trade but, to put it another way, to increase wealth for Canadians and increase the number of jobs for Canadians, because, after all, nothing is more important than that.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you for that.

I'll continue on that line of questioning, and I assure you that I won't bully or intimidate you like members across the way, who seem to be inspired by the recent American presidential debate and are wanting to fire people.

Can you speak to your plans going into the fall and the new year for growing Canada's business footprint in the United States?

[Thomas Clark]

Yes, absolutely. We have a couple of things coming up that we're extraordinarily proud of.

Last year we started our first conference on critical minerals here in New York. We invited down from Canada junior miners, people who have known deposits of critical minerals. We brought them together with investors here in the United States to see if we could make a match.

In most business dealings, as anybody involved in business will tell you, it doesn't happen overnight. This is a process. Investment is a process. Along those lines, we're there to try to accelerate that and to try to widen the opportunities for those investments to be made. Right there, at that conference on critical minerals last year, I think one or two investment deals were made. We're looking for patient capital here in New York. Patient capital is important for critical minerals and that's important for us.

Going ahead, we have a number of CTAs or climate tech accelerators, which are very big for us, bringing down Canadian technology looking for investors in the energy transition mode. We do this for a whole range of industries, but climate tech is a very big one. It's coming up in Climate Week New York, which is later this month, as a matter of fact.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I'm looking forward to that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, gentlemen. That is our time.

Mrs. Vignola, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Clark, there are currently mechanisms in place to ensure that there is no political interference in the purchase of Global Affairs Canada real property. Owning real estate around the world is a good thing, in my humble opinion, because it gives us places where we can engage in diplomacy, which is the basis of many of our ties.

That said, we are now in a situation where we need to look into the matter. That is a good thing, because $9 million is not exactly peanuts.

How can we better ensure that taxpayers' money is soundly invested without there being even a shadow of a doubt of any interference?

[Thomas Clark]

First of all, everybody has to tell the truth. The documents have to reflect the truth as well. I believe that is the case in this situation. As you said, $9 million is a substantial amount of money to Canadians.

However, keep in mind that, once the other residence has been sold, $7 million will be returned to Canadians. It's not just a matter of buying one residence and selling the other.

The people who deal with properties at Global Affairs Canada are the experts; I am not.