Evidence of meeting #140 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was business.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you.
Chief Bernard, thank you for your testimony, and thank you, Mr. Ducharme.
Chief Bernard, you mentioned earlier that if the Métis nation or members of the Métis community were to receive up to 5% of the contracts, then there would be no room left for the AFN. Is that correct, or is this not a...? That's a floor; it's not a ceiling. Is that right? There's an opportunity to continue on with contracts with those that are identified. Is that not correct?
Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations
Absolutely, that is true. However, if you look around the table, you can probably look at everybody around that table right now and say that they have aboriginal ancestry. They may even have a Métis card.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm sorry. I'm going to interrupt.
Can you move your mic back down? We can't hear you at all right now.
Conservative
Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations
If you don't mind, could there be a repeat of that question? I'm sorry.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Yes, certainly.
You mentioned earlier that should the Métis community receive up to 5% of the contracts, then there would be nothing left for other identified indigenous communities. Is that correct, or is that not a floor as opposed to a ceiling?
Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations
As you know, it is the floor. The minimum is 5%. Hopefully, we can get above that. That's not the concern I have. The concern is for the three national organizations—Inuit, Métis, and first nations—where the population is different. In taking 5% and dividing it among the three nations that could access some of these contracts—
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Let me correct that. You again are suggesting that if those other two communities got 5%, there would be nothing left. That's incorrect, is it not? There's more that can be had if there are more opportunities.
Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations
There's more that can be had, absolutely. More can be had because, as you mentioned, 5% is not the ceiling; it is the floor. We're hoping to go above that eventually. Hopefully, on a yearly basis, we can get up to that 10% if potentially possible.
My concern is that if the government sees that it's at that 5% and if you have one or two businesses that make up that whole 5%, then there's no obligation on the government's part to look at all the other smaller first nations entrepreneurs who may be looking for procurement.
Liberal
Vice President, Entrepreneurship and Procurement, Canadian Council for Indigenous Business
Again, I think it's the reporting. What I am concerned about is if there is a half-billion-dollar contract that's a joint venture. That's taking up a lot of spend. The 5%, again, is the floor, and I think it can go over that. It's not 5% that is divided among the three groups; it's indigenous. Again, we can exceed that 5% among all three groups.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
The ministry is undergoing a review of this very issue and the issue of identifying who's indigenous and who is not, and it is determining, through consultations with other groups, how to proceed in an effective manner.
Has your organization been contacted by the government on this issue, Mr. Ducharme?
Vice President, Entrepreneurship and Procurement, Canadian Council for Indigenous Business
We work a lot with the government on indigenous procurement. I think, even with the AFN, there have been a few different committees that we've sat on where we've talked about indigenous procurement.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Chief Bernard, has your organization been contacted by government in trying to determine the best way forward on this issue?
Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations
No, this issue, in reference to membership of the organization, has been an issue from the beginning, and it's something that I haven't seen government take seriously.
As you know, everybody who is a descendant, up to 10 generations, can be Métis. It's just not fair that our organizations under first nations are all under the federal government, and they tell us we're cut off after the second generation. It's more work than ever, and it's not something new. It definitely needs to be looked at to make sure—
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Chief Bernard, I'm talking about the status of the indigenous business directory. Have there been consultations with the organization to determine how best to proceed?
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
For the review that's under way now with other stakeholder groups, you have not been...not you specifically, but your organization has not been in—
Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations
I'm assuming they have. If you're telling me that the government is already undertaking this, then they must have reached out to AFN.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Mr. Ducharme, we have differences of opinion, obviously, here between various organizations to determine who's indigenous and who's not. You've already identified that you have a directory that you've established alongside your business directory for those who are indigenous. How well received are they in the community, in terms of the private sector, in determining those contracts?
Vice President, Entrepreneurship and Procurement, Canadian Council for Indigenous Business
Well, I think any of our indigenous businesses are recognized by the private sector, and they are well received within procurement opportunities.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Do you have consultations with AFN, and the Inuit community as well, in these determinations?
