Government Operations Committee on Oct. 16th, 2024

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

No, you don't. It's in the book.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I'm asking the clerk. I have read it, Garnett.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You can ask questions to the clerk through the chair. I've stated that it's a dilatory motion, which is why we're going to the vote, but if you want to hear the clerk reaffirm what I've just said, go ahead and reaffirm.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Yes, please.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Marc-Olivier Girard]

I can reaffirm what the chair said. Indeed, the motion that was moved by Mr. Genuis is considered a dilatory motion, which is to be put forward forthwith without amendment or debate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 4)

Now we go to Mr. Brock.

Mr. Zuberi...?

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I just wanted to flag that I lowered my hand by mistake, but I still want to keep my place in order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes, I was getting to your name, and then it is Mr. Jowhari.

Mr. Brock, go ahead.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I have much to say.

First, I want to deeply apologize to both of our witnesses, who are here to continue a discussion, an examination and a review of a very serious issue. As I identified, Ms. Semaganis, you travelled over five hours from northern Ontario to be here in person. My colleague, Mr. Genuis, said how disappointing this manoeuvre was. He used softer language than I intend on using. I find it disgusting. I find it disrespectful. A social justice issue such as this deserves the appropriate amount of time.

Now, to the individuals you've heard on Zoom, some of my colleagues—the Liberal colleagues from British Columbia, for instance—talk about break weeks. We all enjoy break weeks from time to time. The nice thing about being a parliamentarian and having a hybrid format such as this, where people can appear in person and appear on screen, is that you can talk and chew gum at the same time.

For instance, this morning, this meeting started at 12 noon. I was engaging with constituents this morning in my riding by telephone and by Zoom. I intend on doing the very same thing before I leave Ottawa, and when I return to my riding, I'll be doing the same thing. You don't often hear that from the Liberal colleagues because what has been happening here for the better part of two years, during which we've been examining one scandal after another, is a pattern of shutting down uncomfortable, difficult conversations.

This Prime Minister—and I know you don't want to be political, but I certainly can—has the reputation of being the only Prime Minister in the history of this country to have been found guilty not once but twice of ethical violations. Ministers in his cabinet—

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, Mr. Brock. Excuse me.

Go ahead on your point of order.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I would just like to call into question the relevance of what Mr. Brock is putting forward right now.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I intend on getting there, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

The Prime Minister set an example of unethical governance and an unethical way of being a steward of taxpayer monies. After he was found guilty twice, various ministers in his cabinet have been found guilty. Other members of his backbench have been found guilty of ethical violations. We see a pattern that I have seen in this particular committee. I have seen it at public accounts, another parliamentary committee. I have seen it at the justice committee. I have seen it at the ethics committee.

To give a couple of examples to both witnesses, we had the Auditor General, who finally took an interest in conducting an audit of the ArriveCAN scandal. I referenced that in the first question I put to you.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I have a point of order.

Mr. Chair, we're debating a motion about you showing respect and giving notice for meetings. This has nothing to do with what Mr. Brock is going off about right now, and I would really like your ruling on relevance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We always allow a wide latitude in the discussions. I think every one of you has been called on relevance on previous motions. I'm sure Mr. Brock will get to it.

Go ahead, Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Absolutely.

To Ms. Atwin and the rest of her Liberal colleagues, I informed you at the outset that this was going to be lengthy. I will get to relevancy, but it will be on my time, Ms. Atwin, and certainly not yours or any member of your party's time.

I'll give you an example of the disrespect shown by the Liberal Party, by its members and by the NDP, which at that point was in a coalition with the Liberal government. Hypocrisy is just abundant when we're talking about the NDP because they talk a tough game in the House. They talk tough on social media about how difficult—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Coteau, again, we might have an issue with your mic, so—

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Can I try it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes. I was going to say to try, but don't go too fast. I'll interrupt you if we're having an issue.

Go ahead, and I'll wait for a signal from our interpreters.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm new to the committee.

I just want to make sure that, if we vote on this procedural vote quickly, we can get back to the witnesses. Is that right?

We could be back to the witnesses after a vote in two minutes, if we just stop debating and deal with the motion. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Let me see if the translation is working and everything. We're okay.

It's not really a point of order, but, yes, if they're—

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Just so the witnesses know, if we actually stop debating this procedural item and vote on it, we could actually get back to it right away.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

If it was withdrawn, we could get back to it right away. If it was voted on, we could get back to it right away. It's both ways, yes.

Go ahead, Mr. Brock.