Government Operations Committee on Oct. 17th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 146 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

As a reminder for everyone in the room today, keep your headsets away from your microphones so we can protect the hearing of our very valued interpreters.

We welcome Ms. Paquette and Mr. Lawrence-Whyte from PSPC. One of you has an opening statement for five minutes.

Go ahead, Ms. Paquette.

[Joëlle Paquette, Acting Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that we are gathered today on the traditional, unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation.

My name is Joëlle Paquette, and I am the acting associate assistant deputy minister of the procurement branch. Joining me today is Clinton Lawrence-Whyte, the director general of Procurement Assistance Canada, which offers direct support to businesses on how to participate in federal procurement.

The Government of Canada is committed to economic reconciliation with indigenous peoples, and, as part of this commitment, will continue to promote increased opportunities for first nations, Inuit, and Métis participation and inclusion through the federal procurement process.

I would like to thank the committee for inviting us today to speak to Public Services and Procurement Canada's efforts to deliver on its indigenous procurement commitment to award a minimum of 5% of the total value of PSPC contracts to indigenous businesses by the end of fiscal year 2024-25. I want to highlight that this is a government target toward which the Treasury Board Secretariat, or the TBS, and Indigenous Services Canada, or ISC, play essential and distinct roles. It is essential for PSPC to follow the rules set by both organizations in its effort to meet the 5% target.

The TBS is responsible for setting Government of Canada policies. On this file, it has provided clear direction that what counts toward the 5% are contracts with firms that are included in the indigenous business directory.

Indigenous Services Canada is responsible for implementing and advising on the Procurement Strategy for Indigenous Business program, including verifying the eligibility of businesses receiving contracts under the strategy—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, Ms. Paquette.

Mr. Bachrach, go ahead, please.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'm sorry for interrupting. I'm having some difficulty with interpretation. I don't know if anyone else joining remotely is having a similar difficulty. I see Mrs. Block nodding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It's clearer in person, but you're right. Mrs. Block is nodding.

Mrs. Atwin and Mr. Rogers, how are you with interpretation?

We'll pause for a couple of seconds and check it out. Give me one moment, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are back. I apologize for the delay.

Ms. Paquette, you're welcome to start at the beginning or continue.

[Joëlle Paquette]

I will continue, but I'll start at the last paragraph if that works.

Indigenous Services Canada is responsible for implementing and advising on the Procurement Strategy for Indigenous Business program, including verifying the eligibility of businesses receiving contracts under the strategy and maintaining the Indigenous Business Directory.

As the lead, ISC is responsible for the PSIB's eligibility criteria, including verifying, certifying and auditing indigenous businesses listed on the IBD, thus ensuring only firms that are entitled to these contracts receive them. ISC continues to actively work with indigenous partners to co-develop a new transformative indigenous procurement strategy that will improve procurement policies, safeguards and processes for indigenous businesses.

As per the Treasury Board Directive on the Management of Procurement, Public Services and Procurement Canada is responsible for developing operational tools to support procurement undertaken on behalf of other government departments, such as guidance, templates and standard contract clauses. This responsibility includes developing tools to—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry, but I have to stop her there.

It's not working for those of us joining remotely. The sound quality is quite terrible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mr. Bachrach.

Mrs. Block, how is it for you? Has it gotten bad again?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Yes. It sounds like the French and English are competing with one another. We're hearing both. One is a little softer than the other, but it's also getting louder and softer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm getting nods all around. It's the same with Mrs. Vignola.

We'll suspend again for a few moments and see if we can fix this. Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Colleagues, I apologize for the delay. We think we have the IT stuff straightened out. We're going to blame it on Zoom, apparently—on the update.

Ms. Paquette, we'll go back to you. Please go ahead.

[Joëlle Paquette]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As per the Treasury Board Directive on the Management of Procurement, Public Services and Procurement Canada is responsible for developing operational tools to support procurement undertaken on behalf of other government departments, such as guidance, templates and standard contract clauses. This responsibility includes developing tools to assist the Government of Canada in its effort to increase participation of indigenous businesses in federal procurement.

In fiscal year 2022-23, PSPC awarded 2.7%, or $139 million, of the total value of its procurements to indigenous businesses. In fiscal year 2023-24, PSPC awarded 3.4%, or $143 million, of the total value of its procurements to indigenous businesses.

As PSPC has not met its objective, various ongoing and planned activities are under way to progress and sustain the 5% target. The department has undertaken extensive engagement initiatives with indigenous partners to highlight indigenous procurement opportunities and to outline the support available through Procurement Assistance Canada.

During the 2023‑24 fiscal year, Public Services and Procurement Canada hosted or took part in over 524 events tailored towards enabling indigenous-owned and indigenous-led businesses to participate in federal procurement. We participated in four indigenous business information sessions that brought together indigenous businesses, communities and associations to increase indigenous participation in federal procurement and highlight indigenous procurement opportunities and support available through Government of Canada programs and services.

PAC's outreach and engagement efforts continue to support indigenous businesses and communities by helping them understand federal procurement and the opportunities available. PAC also participates in various remote community events, helping spread awareness and support to indigenous communities throughout Canada with the goal of supporting economic development. PAC assists indigenous communities with navigating the procurement process and sharing tools available to indigenous groups. PAC has also partnered with the Nunavut Economic Developers Association for a mentorship program. This program is focused on Inuit business owners interested in federal procurement.

These concrete outreach efforts will enable Public Services and Procurement Canada to drive economic reconciliation, create jobs in indigenous communities, develop the expertise and skill sets needed for their success, and foster the next generation of indigenous entrepreneurs from coast to coast to coast.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I don't think we can proceed with this meeting given the sound challenges. It's completely untenable. For those of us doing this remotely, which is most of us, I can't see how we'll possibly get through it with any semblance of participation, so I want to register my frustration.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I appreciate that, Mr. Bachrach. Yes, I'm going to—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, on that point of order, I can hear totally fine. I don't know if the challenges are different or the perceptions are different, but—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are going to suspend again and check it again.

I'm sorry, everyone. Just bear with us. We'll suspend.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are back again. We think we have it all settled with IT, so we're going back to Ms. Paquette.

Go ahead, please.

[Joëlle Paquette]

Actually, I was done with my opening remarks. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Those were the longest five-minute opening remarks—40 minutes long. Thanks for your patience with us.

We'll start with Mr. Genuis for six minutes, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Go to Mr. Brock first and then to me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Brock, go ahead.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Here we go again: another day, another NDP-Liberal financial scandal. This time, it's about the contracting supply chain.

What is the total value of misappropriated funds in the indigenous procurement system?

[Joëlle Paquette]

I do not have that information, and you would have to refer to Indigenous Services Canada. We are working on the 5% related to PSPC's targets.