Evidence of meeting #148 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was businesses.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
I want to say congratulations and read a section on the Indspire website: “Gina Wilson’s career stands as a beacon for many other Indigenous people working in public service.” I want to say thank you so much for your tremendous leadership and exceptional work. Thank you and congratulations, once again.
A letter we received from an indigenous-led business called Plato reads, “With an effective Indigenous procurement system in place, the Government could make tremendous steps forward toward economic reconciliation with Indigenous peoples.”
I want to ask you this: From your vantage point, what is the significance of achieving economic reconciliation in Canada? How does ensuring procurement opportunities for indigenous people or businesses help achieve economic reconciliation? I know that's a bit of a philosophical or broad question, but I'm hoping you might be able to give some insight.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Thank you very much for that recognition. I always get awkward when somebody says that, but thank you.
I want to add that, on this front, that the procurement strategy for indigenous people has so much potential to create so many business opportunities that can generate wealth in communities and for indigenous people. It's a policy and strategy that I really want to promote, defend and create awareness for because of its popularity and potential.
I'll ask Keith to talk a little about economic reconciliation.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indigenous Services
Yes, it's very timely that you raised this point around economic reconciliation. We have been working very closely, over the last year and some, with first nations, Inuit and Métis partners to develop an economic reconciliation framework.
Our minister got a mandate a couple of years ago to work with partners and come up with a framework to create a narrative that will support transformative work around economic reconciliation, business development and capacity development. That is in play as we speak. We're hopefully going to cabinet in November to get its blessing for the work forward. It will map out some of the key proposals coming directly from the partners in order to make investments down the road and into the future, and some immediate investments in a three-year scenario to create a biannual policy process that looks at new opportunities in economic development in this country.
We hope to have more to share in the coming months on that.
Thanks for the question.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you. That is a bold, ambitious and inspiring plan.
Oftentimes, we hear that ISC is co-developing updates to the indigenous procurement strategy.
What does “co-development” mean in this context, and how is the process different from what was done in previous updates?
Director General, Economic Policy Development, Department of Indigenous Services
To clarify, is that regarding procurement, specifically, or economic reconciliation?
Director General, Economic Policy Development, Department of Indigenous Services
Well, the process we've undertaken is working with partners on the economic reconciliation framework, which includes indigenous procurement. It has been very different in that, in a traditional co-development process, it's developed jointly, just as it sounds.
In this case, we asked our indigenous partners, on a distinctions basis, to provide us with a list of their priorities. We asked them, “In an economic reconciliation space, what would you prioritize and have us, the Government of Canada, focus on in order to meet your economic reconciliation goals?”
I personally haven't worked on anything done in that way before. It's been a very remarkable opportunity to be supported in directly bringing forward the voices of partners in this space.
Conservative
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As someone who, again, comes from northern Alberta, I would argue that many of the businesses.... I've had many indigenous businesses come to me saying that they are in the directory, or struggling to get in the directory, but they can't actually get government contracts. They're able to get billion-dollar contracts in the oil sands, as they have for, sometimes, in excess of 20 or 40 years. However, they can't get Government of Canada contracts, no matter what they do. They have to hire consultants just to navigate the federal system, because it has become so complicated. These are very intelligent, successful businesses.
My frustration is here: The Government of Canada has failed to operationalize it. You sit there going.... You don't try to get all the businesses into the directory, because maybe they're in the oil sands and don't want to be. I would argue that all indigenous businesses should try to get on that list, because not being on it prevents them from getting on other lists. To one question, you stated you'd go to the Métis Nation of Alberta.
What would happen in the case of the northern Alberta Métis, who have officially disassociated from the Métis Nation of Alberta? Are they no longer eligible to be on the indigenous business list?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
As I mentioned earlier, the list we draw upon is from CIRNAC. Indigenous bodies are recognized by the CIRNAC ministry. We go to them. We don't decide that on our own. If the organization you identified is on the CIRNAC list, it remains in the indigenous business directory.
I would go back to your earlier point. I agree that it's sometimes a very complicated process. I've heard that as well. The more we can streamline it the better. Actually, we want to transfer the indigenous business directory to indigenous organizations. We can improve what we have now. Our sole, primary objective is to transfer it and have indigenous people lead that.
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
I'll go back to Dalian.
You determined that it met the qualifications for being indigenous, but you decided to remove it for other reasons.
For what specific reason was it removed?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indigenous Services
Yes, you're right. They were originally recognized by first nations leadership as a member of their nation—a non-status member. Regardless, they're eligible to be in the directory.
We noted that Globe and Mail interviews with Dalian referred to changes in his corporation. That affected the “51% owned and controlled” scenario. That was part of the reason we had to remove his business from the directory. He changed his corporate structure.
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
Okay.
If a business is determined to not be indigenous, or not to qualify for some reason, is there any effort made to try to recover funds they might have received via indigenous procurement?
Director General, Economic Policy Development, Department of Indigenous Services
That is one of the options that could certainly be pursued by the Government of Canada.
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
Has it been pursued by the Government of Canada?
Director General, Economic Policy Development, Department of Indigenous Services
It hasn't, to our knowledge. I'm not in a position to speak for the entire Government of Canada.
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
Have efforts been made to go specifically after Dalian to recover those funds?
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
No effort has been made by the Government of Canada or ISC to recover funds from Dalian.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I don't know about the Government of Canada, but ISC hasn't.
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
Do you think that's a responsible decision?
Director General, Economic Policy Development, Department of Indigenous Services
There are numerous considerations ongoing with regard to Dalian and Coradix and what we heard in committee and in the media, so the totality of the actions that the government could choose to take isn't complete. Work is still ongoing.
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
I appreciate that. Canadians expect that their tax dollars are going to be spent appropriately and fairly, and in cases when they aren't, they expect that government is going to do what is being done. What is being considered when it comes to the case of Dalian specifically?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I don't want to refer the question, but there are other entities that are looking at this beyond ISC. We're one player. Some of those decisions require more than one department to come together, so I wouldn't want to speak for them.
