Government Operations Committee on Nov. 5th, 2024

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much.

You mentioned the context of other countries and their consulates, and the importance of them being located in Manhattan, for example. More generally, how does our diplomatic work in the United States contribute to our competitiveness on the world stage?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

If there's a country in the world that knows the U.S., it's Canada. Not only are we really proud of our diplomatic network and our consulates—we have one of the most important and biggest embassies in Washington—but I must say, throughout the entire year, I've been in contact with many foreign ministers around the world and many leaders, and they all come to see us to understand what's going on in the U.S.

That's important, because it gives also us a form of leverage and influence around the world. It is also important to Canadians because so many jobs are linked to it in every single one of our ridings, including, of course, in New Brunswick, in Fredericton and in Dean's riding in Niagara.

We're intrinsically linked, so we need to make sure that we are there to protect Canadian jobs and defend our interests, and that's what we're doing. That's definitely what we're doing in New York and Manhattan.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much.

What are the dangers, then, of cutting those investments and pulling back from those diplomatic engagements with our most important friend, ally and bilateral trading partner?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

The Conservatives, for a long time, had the vision of not investing in diplomacy and actually getting Canada out of the UN, which would have been catastrophic, to be frank. This is because we need to make sure that we defend our interests through the multilateral system since we're not a nuclear power. The best way for us to defend our interests is through having and defending strong rules and a rules-based order.

At the same time—and Rachel was referring to this earlier—in an article from October 2010, the Harper government of the time thought that by cutting much of its investment in real estate, it would actually be saving money. However, what we saw at the time was the cost soaring by 430%. Therefore, we decided to do things differently to make sure that we would invest, yes, a big amount of money, and at the same time sell to make sure that, ultimately, we would be able to get good value for the money being invested.

I think this is a pragmatic approach and a responsible approach, and we're acting as adults in the room.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much

Do you have an update on the sale of the former residence on Park Avenue? Do we know where that is at?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Robin, can you provide that?

[Robin Dubeau]

The property has been on the market for about 81 days as of yesterday. We know there has been a lot of movement on the file. The real estate agent has reported that he's received 38 different inquiries, and he has had eight showings to potential buyers. He's had, as well, many questions from other real estate agents who have gone there to visit it.

The property is not sold yet. It's still on the market. There's movement. The real estate agent is quite happy with the way the file is unfolding. He asked me not to share too many details, and I don't want to interfere with his transaction. He said that we are still within our time frame for marketing this type of asset, which is between three and six months.

Thank you.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I hope we get top dollar for that sale and the best return on investment for Canadians.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That was perfectly on five minutes.

Thank you very much.

Mrs. Vignola, go ahead for two and a half minutes, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Between 2016 and 2022, 44 transaction authorization requests were over the authorized limit, which was $4 million.

Since 2022, meaning since the limit went up to $10 million, how many authorization requests were made?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

No requests were directed to me.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Did the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development request any authorizations from the Treasury Board Secretariat?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Ms. Vignola, I want to make sure I understand your question correctly.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Were there any transaction authorization requests over $10 million?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I received no requests.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Did the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development ask the Treasury Board Secretariat to approve transaction authorization requests totalling over $10 million since 2022?

[Sandra McCardell]

To my knowledge, no, but we will be able to verify it. We did in fact ask for our level to be increased to reflect the climate of inflation and high markets.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

The transaction limit went up by 150%. It was $4 million, but it was increased to $10 million in 2022. Was the decision to increase this limit due to the spike in real estate prices between 2019 and 2022? Did real estate prices—not just in New York, but elsewhere throughout the world—also go up by 150%?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Yes, but I don’t know if they went up by 150%. There was indeed significant demand. Under the circumstances, we decided to increase the limit to make sure we could react quickly and adjust to what other countries were doing.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Very well.

Often, when individuals without a huge pile of money want to buy a new house, they sell the one they already have before buying the next one. It is even possible to specify a delayed possession date in the bill of sale that lines up with the date they enter the new residence.

Why didn’t it happen that way for the Park Avenue residence?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I will ask Ms. McCardell or Mr. Dubeau to answer your question, Mrs. Vignola.

[Sandra McCardell]

Before deciding whether one is going to sell the house before buying another one, one must assess certain risks.

We analyzed the situation based on the consulate’s responsibilities, as well as a financial analysis. On a business continuity level, we finally realized it was extremely important to have every possible lever available to us for our relations with the United States during the months preceding the election. It was obvious we wanted a residence that would allow us to come as close as possible to achieving our objectives.

Then, we took into account fees for the consul general’s short-term rental and storing his personal effects. Finally, the financial analysis helped us determine that it was more advantageous to buy a new residence and wait for a potential sale a few months down the line.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Ms. Blaney, go ahead, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the minister, through the chair.

One thing that I found very concerning, especially as a New Democrat who cares a lot about unions and about workers, is that I understand that the building we've bought into was built entirely with non-union labour and that the contractor was charged with stealing wages from workers.

According to the Manhattan district attorney, the company, Parkside Construction, and its affiliates stole more than $1.7 million in wages over three years from about 520 workers. The company also hid about $42 million in wages from the state insurance officials to avoid paying millions in workers' compensation premiums, which is pretty concerning.

In the work we do as a country in purchasing, there are many different departments that are included in that process. Is there ever a discussion about checking what happened to the people who built that investment we're putting money into and what the impact will be? I think it's really important, as the country of Canada, to do some of that research. I'm wondering whether there were any discussions about that or whether that's something that, at a cabinet level, will be looked at in the future.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

When it comes to supporting good union jobs in Canada, definitely that's what we're doing, and we're attracting investments from around the world. Canada's now the third jurisdiction in the world in being able to attract the most investments. We've seen it particularly in the auto sector, the EV sector. These are all good union jobs, and these are actually investments that are being discussed at our embassies and official residences around the world.

I hear you. I'm very supportive of labour workers as well, Rachel, as our government is. In this case, of course, we wanted to make sure that we had good value for money. In the circumstances, in a market that is extremely expensive that I think none of us around the table is able to pay for, to be frank, I think we were able to get a good deal, bearing in mind that we had a good asset also to sell that would make sure that we would be able to bring back—