Government Operations Committee on Nov. 19th, 2024

[Robin Dubeau]

Yes, that's correct.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

So he does live at 550 Park Avenue.

Does Global Affairs Canada intend to sell that residence as well?

[Robin Dubeau]

That's a good question. I will answer and perhaps Mr. Hounzangbé will have something to add.

Although the two apartments are in the same building, their layout and overall condition are different. The one currently occupied by Canada's representative to the United Nations is on two storeys. It is completely different from the other apartment. Moreover, it was renovated in 2010–2011, so it is not in the same condition as apartment 12E, where Mr. Clark lives.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

Are receptions, official dinners and other similar events held in the apartment of Canada's permanent representative to the United Nations?

[Robin Dubeau]

Yes, they are.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The rules that apply to apartment 12E therefore also apply to the apartment of Canada's representative to the United Nations, but in what way are they not as strict as those for the consul in terms of receptions and other similar events?

[Robin Dubeau]

The same rules apply to both apartments. Receptions and similar events are held in both apartments currently, and both are subject to certain restrictions. The mission informed us of those restrictions which are related to the co-op rules.

So the two apartments are subject to the same restrictions, but not necessarily to the same extent, depending on the number of activities and the number of attendees at the receptions.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

You said that the condo occupied by the United Nations representative was renovated recently. Did those renovations include modifications for accessibility, which was an issue with the consul's condo?

[Robin Dubeau]

To my knowledge, the renovations done in 2010 did not necessarily include modifications for accessibility as we understand it now, since that new legislation came into effect in 2021.

That said, the apartment's equipment was renovated to modernize and extend its life.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Is there an assessment of the future potential cost of updating that apartment as regards accessibility in particular?

[Robin Dubeau]

That's a good question.

I would have to check. I know we have not yet fully assessed that apartment as we did apartment 12E because we thought it was still in good condition.

So we have not completely assessed the apartment's condition, but that will be one of the elements we consider when we get to that stage. We will then decide what would be the best option to update it, if necessary.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

These questions are not directly related to apartment 12E, but I would like to compare the two situations since the two apartments are in the same building.

Should you decide some day to purchase a property for the United Nations representative, I doubt it would be apartment 111, 57th Street West, since there are no more apartments available in that building.

Let's get back to apartment 12E.

I'm wondering whether the opinions of former Canadian consuls general in New York had been considered in any matters relating to the residence and its functionality.

[Robin Dubeau]

I do not have specific information as to whether the opinions of consuls general who lived in that apartment are on file. On the other hand, I have been in touch with the administrative officer responsible for assets and property since 2022. He has clearly stated that the three elements we mentioned had been reported to him several times since 2014.

There was the issue of the layout, which wasn't optimal for holding receptions and living there, the co-op restrictions, and the accessibility issues, which came to the fore in 2021.

Those are the three elements that the officer reported to me personally during the two years that I was responsible for that file.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Dubeau.

I will let my colleagues use the rest of my speaking time. I will have other questions later on.

[Robin Dubeau]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Before we get to Ms. Blaney, we're going to suspend for just 30 seconds to do another mic check.

We're back. Thanks for your patience.

Ms. Blaney, you have six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here today with us.

For me, when I look at this process, it's really about understanding the policy. I understand the concern about people asking for things they shouldn't, but it sounds to me like you guys did amazing work. I just want to say thank you. I know you are very diligent.

Could you explain to me a bit more about when you're looking at these properties and moving toward having these properties purchased? What do you look at in terms of being able to resell?

Canadians want to know that their investment is sound and will hopefully bring equity to the country eventually. I'm just wondering if you could talk about value for money and the process that you go through.

[Robin Dubeau]

Thank you for the question. It's a good one.

When we do the life-cycle assessment in a real property transaction, we look at all of the costs associated with an asset and all of the potential gain in value this asset may take. As I'm sure you understand, New York is one of the highest and most active markets on the planet, so we looked at what the appreciation of the asset over time could be. We are not in the business of creating capital gains out of our transactions, but we certainly look at what the potential value is for Canadians in terms of not only being able to use it....

It's well located in an area that will allow us to do our work and be conducive to our business type, which is diplomatic activities. However, those areas are also areas where we will normally have assets that will retain and gain value, so we look at this. This is not a primary factor, but it is certainly a factor.

Maybe my colleague Mr. Hounzangbé wants to add a bit to this.

[Franck Hounzangbé]

The question was also about the policies around this, and that's definitely part of my area of responsibility.

What we're using when we're selecting a property in New York, or anywhere else, is chapter five of the 2014 property management manual. It acts a little like a checklist for us to see.... For this class of official residence, these are the different elements that we need to take into account. We check them against the requirements of the official residence.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much for that, Mr. Hounzangbé. I appreciate that.

One of the things I've found out through my own personal research is that the contractor that was part of building this building was a non-union contractor and actually had some really poor labour practices during his time building. A lot of people were out wages and whatnot. If there isn't a policy looking at the ethical building of a place that we might be buying, is there a process that we could go through to make it a policy or a regulation that we look at when we're purchasing?

It makes me sad to think that people suffered and now a representative of Canada is living in that space. I'm wondering if there's any thought about that or if it could be something that's explored.

[Franck Hounzangbé]

Thank you for the question and the opportunity to clarify. Certainly, that's something we are sensitive to. We understood the context surrounding the construction of this building via the work of this committee.

Currently, I'm not aware of any policy that governs that area specifically. With any acquisition, the Government of Canada is sensitive to the labour involved and the impacts on labour. Certainly, that's something we can take under advisement, but at the moment, I'm not aware of any policy that dictates a review of the labour conditions before an acquisition is made.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I have no more questions, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Officials, you have now confirmed that the consular office in New York City is one of the most important missions in America. By extension, clearly, the consul general, Tom Clark, is in a very influential position within America and in its relationship with Canada.

Would you agree with that?

[Robin Dubeau]

The mission in New York is one of the largest and most important missions we have.