Government Operations Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much.

Another issue that is near and dear to my heart is the non-insured health benefits program. When I was first running for office, there were a lot of issues that people cared deeply about, but it's one issue where my stepfather actually came to me and said, “Can you please fix the non-insured health care benefits program?”

For anyone who's used it, it's very cumbersome. It's been incredibly difficult for many people to navigate. I was really excited to see that Indigenous Services is requesting $562.5 million for the non-insured health benefits program. Their operating expenditures are $505.7 million and then there's $56.8 million for the grants and contributions.

Do you know if this funding will be used to address some of those gaps in benefits or to streamline service delivery as identified in the ongoing joint review of the program?

[Anita Anand]

It is certainly something that we are taking a look at. There is funding within the supplementaries for us to do that. Given that we have a number of officials here today, I'm glad they're able to hear your questions so they can take it forward.

Thank you.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

That's excellent. Thank you very much.

I note as well that a lot of the concerns came to light through the Canada dental care plan, which is fantastic, but it was able to shed light on some of the issues within the non-insured health care benefits program too. I'm so happy to see any improvement there for services for indigenous peoples.

Another critical piece that you mentioned is Jordan's principle. That's also so important to the community members I represent. I'm seeing that Indigenous Services is also requesting $955.2 million for reforms to the first nations child and family services program. This improves services for children to be cared for in their communities—to respect the communities' jurisdiction—and then also $725 million for the continued implementation of Jordan's principle.

Can you tell me what the planned reforms are for the first nations child and family services program and what the timeline for their implementation might be?

[Anita Anand]

Sure, and then I'll ask Antoine if he has anything to add.

The first nations child and family services, as well as services and support under Jordan's principle, are amounts that are committed given the decisions that have been provided by external adjudicative bodies. We're very much looking to comply with our legal obligations, as well as to support truth and reconciliation with those numbers that you mentioned.

However, Antoine may have something else to add.

[Antoine Brunelle-Côté, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

No. I think the answer was a good answer. For first nations children, the money will provide access to needed health, social and education products, services and supports. That's what the money is going to be used for.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Excellent, and of the requested funding, is there an amount allocated to improving the availability of safe and adequate housing for children on reserve?

[Bill Matthews]

Just given the detailed nature of program design, it's actually probably best for us to follow up off-line with the responsible department and maybe come back with information on how they plan to spend the money with those considerations.

[Anita Anand]

But the bottom line is, yes, there is.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Okay. Thank you very much.

I have about one minute left.

I'm going to turn to my colleagues at Crown-Indigenous Relations, because we're also interested in their supplementary estimates. I see that they're requesting $532.7 million to settle land-related claims, should agreements be reached.

Do you know what the average length of time to settle a land claim would be? What proportion of this time relates to government approvals?

[Anita Anand]

I appreciate the question.

I would say that the bottom line on that one is that it varies. The process of settling land claims can take weeks, months or years, depending on the negotiation, the size of the piece of land that is being negotiated, and historical treaties, as well as discussions about the value of the land.

I know that Minister Anandasangaree has been working extremely hard to try to ensure that these land claim settlements proceed. You would have seen an agreement with the Métis nation of Manitoba recently along those lines.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you. That is our time.

We'll now go to our two-and-a-half-minute rounds.

Mrs. Vignola, please go ahead.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Anand, I'm going to go back to the answer you gave earlier regarding the reports on departmental results and the public accounts of Canada.

You say that these documents will be tabled by the end of the year. I assume that means by December 31, that is, nine months after the end of the fiscal year. If I'm not mistaken, the public accounts of Canada and departmental results reports are only tabled when the House has been in session for at least 15 days. However, on December 31, we are not in session.

Do I understand that we'll be receiving the departmental results reports and the public accounts of Canada around January, or even February, almost a year after the close of the last fiscal year?

Is the government open to the idea of modifying this timetable so that parliamentarians from all parties can do their auditing work?

[Anita Anand]

As I said, we will file them in accordance with what is provided for in the legislation. We have already discussed these accounts and results with the Department of Finance.

In addition, we have sent our documents to the Auditor General. As soon as she has completed her review, we will proceed with the signatures.

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, I just want to mention two quick points.

I know everyone will be really pleased to receive the reports the minister mentioned.

However, a member has already mentioned the "Fiscal Monitor" report, which gives ongoing transparent updates on government spending and financial results. I would add GC InfoBase, which is a tool that's transparent and available online that will provide members information throughout the year on departmental spending and performance, if they're interested.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Previously, pilot training was provided by the Royal Canadian Air Force. This training will now be provided by SkyAlyne Canada.

Why did you decide to outsource pilot training and pay an additional $659 million for it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I apologize, as there's no time left for an answer. Perhaps you can provide the committee with Usa written response.

We now have Ms. Blaney.

Go ahead for two and a half minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

To come back to the public service jobs, I do just have one more question.

I know that at this point in Canada, people aged 65 and over outnumber those aged 18 and under, and we know this is just going to continue to grow. As we see more people aging in the system, I'm just wondering if there's an assessment happening at every department level about the services they provide to seniors and how those may need to grow and be more accessible for people as they age.

[Anita Anand]

It's a really good question, and it's certainly one I have spoken with Minister MacKinnon about in terms of his responsibility for seniors. The digitization of the pay systems, for example, or immigration systems are always taken with a GBA+ analysis in mind. GBA+ refers not only to gender-based analyses but also to other groups in terms of how government services are going to be delivered. So, yes, we do keep the concerns relating to our aging population in mind.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you. I appreciate that. I would say that a lot of seniors have concerns and they've faced challenges, so I hope there's some point to listening to that.

The next question I have, of course, is about the federal pension plan. I understand that a second audit has been requested of the chief actuary. I'm just wondering if you could share with us what prompted you to ask for this second audit. How are you addressing the issue where we know that the pensions are paid not only by taxpayers, but also by workers? Workers are very concerned that the money they've contributed is going into the coffers of the government and there's no support for them and their contributions. How are those two things being addressed?

[Anita Anand]

The opinion you're referring to, I believe, is not the audit; it's a secondary examination through an actuarial valuation simply to address some issues that may not have been taken into account in the audit, but the audit itself on non-permitted surplus and the actuarial reports, which I tabled a couple of weeks ago, stand as true.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I apologize again. We are past our time, and we committed to get you out of here on time.

Perhaps you can provide a more fulsome response in writing to us.

We'll now go to Mr. Genuis, and then we'll finish up with Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

I was surprised to see the government vote in favour of my motion to ban double-dipping. That was a motion to prevent government employees from doubling as outside contractors. I was pleasantly surprised.

Will the government now implement this motion and finally ban double-dipping?

[Anita Anand]

Thank you to my honourable colleague for bringing forward that motion.

As you know, we are continuously looking at how to inject more discipline into the system. That's why I introduced the revised directive on conflict of interest, which directly addresses the point that my honourable colleague is making as well as the horizontal audit and decision-making.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, I'll just jump in. My question is specific. It's about the motion you voted for in the House of Commons, as did your colleagues. That motion wasn't to reaffirm these various other policies; it was to outright completely ban the practice of double-dipping.

Is it the intention of the government to follow through on the unanimous vote of the House of Commons and to ban outright double-dipping, which I think you'll acknowledge goes further than these existing policies?

[Anita Anand]

Again, I thank my honourable colleague for bringing forward the motion and for voting in favour of it.

As I said, we are continually looking at how we can improve the directive on conflict of interest. We've revised it already this year, and we're looking at further ways we can strengthen the conflict of interest policy.