Government Operations Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[Anita Anand]

As I said, we have more work to do, as does Canada Life. However, we have seen progress.

You can certainly send me the emails in question.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Of the $1.7 billion that the Treasury Board Secretariat is requesting in its budget estimates, $24 million would be allocated to professional and special services.

What are these services and what are their objectives?

[Anita Anand]

I mentioned a few services in my opening remarks, but I can also give you some details.

For example, $600 million goes to the Department of National Defence, mainly for engineering services as well as scientific and research services.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Forgive me for interrupting, Ms. Anand.

I'm referring specifically to the $24 million that would be earmarked for professional and special services from the Treasury Board Secretariat.

[Anita Anand]

We're going to spend this money—if we have the approval of the House—on human resources systems. We need to support services for our public servants and make sure they get paid.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

What I understand is that this $24 million in professional services will be used to support human resources.

Is that correct?

[Bill Matthews, Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Mr. Chair, let me add a clarification. This is a contract to replace the Phoenix payroll system. As you know, a project that has been underway for over a year now is bringing in professionals from other companies to ensure that the department has the necessary expertise to move the project forward on the new system.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

All right.

So we're asking for $18 million under vote 1b to fund the Next Generation Human Resources and Pay Initiative. Another $24 million would also be earmarked to support all of this.

Did I understand correctly?

[Karen Cahill, Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat]

In fact, this amount is included in the $18 million. As the secretary and the president mentioned, there are other professional services that are required, including the online information access system, minor professional services, I would say, and cybersecurity.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

The 2023‑24 departmental results reports have not yet been tabled.

When will this be done?

[Anita Anand]

We will first table the public accounts of Canada in the House by the end of the year. We will then table the departmental results reports.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

I have Ms. Blaney, please, for six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I thank you, Chair, and I thank the minister and her team for being here today.

I also want to give a special thank you to the amazing interpreters who seem to be able to interpret no matter what. Thank you very much for your hard work.

My first question, for the minister through the chair, is about the government's plans to reduce government spending by cutting public services. I'm wondering if there are departments where you're actually seeing any slowdowns. It seems like it's based only on saving money.

From what I've heard, most departments are fairly busy, and I think the general population has some serious concerns about understaffing in some of those realms. When is the government planning to cut jobs, and in what way will you be going through the different departments to make those decisions?

[Anita Anand]

I thank the honourable member for the question.

Our public service is composed of extremely hard-working public servants from across the country, who are providing very important services for Canadians at the highest level.

During the pandemic, we hired public servants to deliver emergency supports to Canadians. Now, in the postpandemic period, the Minister of Finance tabled in budget 2024 a plan to rely primarily on natural attrition for a reduction in the size of the public service. There are no DRAP-style public service cuts planned, as we saw in the Harper era.

At the current time, ministers are providing their plans to me and I'm reviewing them, but the decisions relating to refocusing government spending are taken by the ministers of each department.

As I said—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Minister. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I think you answered my question.

In that context, can you explain to me what “stop the clock” is? I've heard that a few departments have received that information, and I'm not sure what it means.

I appreciate what you're saying, in that the ministers will be giving the information based on their department, but what is the timeline for them to give that?

[Anita Anand]

As I said, the ministers are providing their feedback now. No decisions have been taken on the budgetary commitments relating to the 5,000 through natural attrition, or the refocusing government spending project overall.

There are positions that we are certainly attuned to, such as automatic or term rollover positions, and I know my deputy minister, the secretary of the Treasury Board, can add something here.

[Bill Matthews]

The term “stop the clock” refers to term positions. There is basically a process in place whereby, after one works as a term for a consecutive period of time, after three years, they're turned automatically into full-time indeterminate employees. However, the employer has the right to stop the clock on that if there are reasons why the automatic rollover would not be, I'll say, a good decision.

Stopping the clock basically refers to pausing that time period.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I understand that the departments that have heard about and been notified about this are PSPC, Justice, Canadian Heritage and Transport. That's the information I've received.

Can you explain why those four have received that notification?

[Anita Anand]

Actually, I really want to stress that ministers, as a whole, received the notification by letter from me that they should examine their own individual departments in order to meet the refocusing government spending initiative as a whole. Whether it is with regard to the category you mentioned or anything else, no decisions have been taken, and we are still receiving that feedback from ministers.

Again, it is incorrect to say that we are planning full-scale cuts to the public service.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm not implying that. I'm asking for clarity. I didn't get a response to my question, which was why those four ministries have received the stop-the-clock notification. What I'm hearing from you, I think, is that the ministers get to decide how they're going to do it, and maybe these four ministers have made that decision.

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, I can give an example of PSPC, which was cited as one of the four, as a very common-sense one. We just talked about the system replacement under way for Phoenix. There are a lot of terms who are working on Phoenix. Given the planned replacement of Phoenix, which may not require the same degree of manual support as Phoenix, it doesn't make sense to be automatically rolling terms over.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay. That helps me, but what I'm trying to understand is whether it is a decision of the ministers to do that or it is the decision of the minister here with us today. I'm trying to understand how that process works.

[Anita Anand]

This is not the President of the Treasury Board deciding what's going to happen at PSPC, ESDC or any of those things. I will say that the process we are following is slightly different from the first refocusing government spending initiative, in light of what was said in the budget about reducing the size of the public service by approximately 5,000 through natural attrition. That's our goal.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Minister. That is our time.

[Anita Anand]

That's our goal.

If you have other questions, we'd be happy to answer them.