Evidence of meeting #159 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was audits.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
It hasn't gone out yet. If you wish to.... We can start a speaking list on that.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Well, let's make it a notice of motion, then, Chair, and maybe we'll be able to come back to it later.
Liberal
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
We've got to get to the bottom of this issue with the Canadian Health Care Agency, clearly, and there may be responses from the various people Mr. Hartle has named. I would certainly like to hear from them.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
It would be as I read it, including Melanie Reid.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
That's perfect. We'll make sure that it's updated. We will come back to it after everyone's had a chance to look at it.
Mr. Sousa, finish us off, please. You have five minutes, sir.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you for being with us today.
I'm just trying to understand the circumstances before us. You've identified, through the many audits you've done in the past as a subcontractor for Altis and then as a subcontractor for Roundpoint—
Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual
No. I was a subcontractor for Altis and an employee of Roundpoint.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
You were an employee of Roundpoint. That contract was terminated over time and wasn't renewed.
Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual
Yes. It was terminated for convenience.
December 10th, 2024 / 11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Fair enough. The contract came up for renewal and it wasn't renewed.
Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual
No. It was terminated before the contract ended.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Okay.
In that process of audits, you said that you found maybe 8% to 10% non-compliance in all those audits that you put forward. Is that right?
Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual
Don't hold me to that, but I think it's about that amount.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Fair enough.
You did the audits and identified the non-compliance. It's very clear on the website what you have to do to be compliant.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
One of the ways that have been used to encourage indigenous companies to succeed, get into the system, and take advantage of the opportunities that are available to them is through joint partnership, right? As sole providers, they possibly don't have the wherewithal at the time. That's why we're nurturing them to be better.
The case here was that a non-indigenous company was offering services and using an indigenous partner to provide for greater opportunity. That partner then didn't fulfill its requirements. As you've pointed out, there were questionable activities as a result. Corrective action was taken. That was suspended. That contract didn't proceed.
Subsequently, the government has taken additional steps to try to provide for compliance and audit and oversight and integrity into the system. The definition of indigenous, or indigeneity, has also been relevant in these discussions in terms of who should be the one determining that. You're not the one determining indigeneity.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Then you are the one who's deciding on behalf of the indigenous communities. Those who are in debate at times as to who's indigenous and who isn't are relying on you to say whether you are or you are not indigenous.
Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual
Well, it's not relying on me. There's a published criteria list that you follow. I'm an auditor. I just make sure and gather the evidence. If the criteria say you're indigenous, I state that there is indigeneity.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Some of those very communities are saying that it shouldn't be up to the government to decide.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
I'm just referencing what has happened in these testimonies.
