Evidence of meeting #159 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was audits.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Garry Hartle  Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual
Alexander Jeglic  Procurement Ombud, Office of the Procurement Ombud

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

Would that have been during the time when you were contracted to perform eligibility audits?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

I beg your pardon.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

Would that have been during the time frame when you were contracted to perform the eligibility audits?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

Do you believe an auditor contracted to review applications for the indigenous business directory is well placed to determine whether their own business should be listed?

December 10th, 2024 / 11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

In 2020 and 2021, we didn't have anything to do with the IBD.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

Okay.

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

I forget the exact date, but the IBD was formerly run by Industry Canada. Industry Canada registered the businesses. Then they decided they no longer wanted to do that function. They said it was too expensive, so IBD decided to design their own business directory.

In that period of time—

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

The indigenous business directory decided to design its own business directory. Is that what you said?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

Yes. Before, the business directory was being run by Industry Canada, which no longer wanted to do it. They gave it back to ISC to design its own.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

It's ISC. Okay.

While you were doing this work, roughly how many audits did you complete?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

Maybe 100 a year.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

Do you happen to know what the non-compliance rate would be? Could you share that with us?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

It's fairly low. It definitely wouldn't exceed 10%. It may even be lower than that.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

I'll jump quickly to the Canadian Health Care Agency piece as well.

When were you made aware of concerns around CHCA?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

I did the audit.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

What was the task?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

I was tasked with doing the audit and the post-award audit on them.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

Do you know the date?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

It was 2017.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

Okay.

When did you report this alleged issue to PSPC?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

It was probably a month or two. We had difficulty with the company because they wouldn't supply the information. They kept asking for deferrals to have the audit completed.

I don't have the exact date, and I was looking for it. I don't have the date in my report, either. It was sometime during 2017.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

Okay.

As an auditor, what do you look for when verifying indigenous identity? Is that something that you look into?

11:20 a.m.

Senior Compliance Auditor, As an Individual

Garry Hartle

I don't know if you got a copy of.... I'll just briefly go over that, if you give me time to do this.

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

I have about 45 seconds, so maybe I'll just end with this one.

Can I just ask—