Evidence of meeting #161 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was office.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I call the meeting to order.
Good morning, everyone. We are in session.
Welcome to meeting number 161 of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, the mighty OGGO.
Today we welcome Public Sector Integrity Commissioner Harriet Solloway.
Colleagues, we'll do two rounds of questions. We should be out by 1 p.m.
Ms. Solloway, welcome back to OGGO. The floor is yours for an opening statement of five minutes.
Harriet Solloway Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon. I'm very grateful to have the opportunity to speak to the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.
My office owes all Canadians a duty to expose wrongdoing in the federal public sector. At the same time, we owe every person who places their trust in us—including those who find themselves accused of wrongdoing—an impartial and timely outcome based on a serious consideration of all the facts.
Since November of 2022, our caseload has quadrupled, with the number of active submissions reaching 218 at the end of November 2024, including 162 files in analysis and 56 active investigations. This demonstrates the ever more apparent relevance of the office's mandate.
Each submission can contain multiple and distinct allegations, each of which requires admissibility analysis and a complete response. This sharp increase was initially viewed as a surge, but given its sustained nature, it now seems more likely that demand will continue to rise until it eventually plateaus at a new normal. That plateau is not yet in sight.
While it is gratifying that disclosers and complainants are demonstrating trust in my office, the increased number of submissions cannot be addressed within existing capacity. Without an urgent injection of resources, there's a risk that some investigations may not be completed in a timely manner, resulting in an erosion of the availability and the quality of documentary evidence and witness accounts, and the possibility of some cases being left to languish with no resolution.
Of great concern is the inability to investigate reprisal complaints in a timely manner, which would leave public servants vulnerable and exposed to hostile workplaces and affect their employment. Also of concern is the risk that delays would allow wrongdoing to continue without consequence. The potential impact cannot be overstated.
As stated in the preamble of the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act that established the Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner in 2007, “it is in the public interest to maintain and enhance public confidence in the integrity of public servants”.
The inability to effectively investigate and expose wrongdoing due to a paucity of resources impedes effective accountability, thereby undermining a vital component of the checks and balances that enhance confidence in public institutions.
The current funding limitations have compelled some difficult but necessary decisions. The mandate to provide funding for legal assistance to disclosers, complainants and respondents is in jeopardy. Requesters seeking funds for legal advice will need to wait until the new fiscal year. Also, travel required for investigations has been severely limited, slowing progress on a number of files. Significantly more than half of active investigations are outside the national capital region.
In the 2024 budget, my office was allocated a small increase that allowed for the addition of some human resources and the replacement of an antiquated case management system that predated the office's inception in 2007. These resources have been absorbed, but they do not begin to address the influx of submissions. The financial crisis is very real.
To date, my office has taken action to gain efficiencies wherever possible, including leveraging technology and streamlined processes, as well as reviewing and refining operational practices. These efforts have not been sufficient to overcome the crisis. Consequently, in early August I submitted a modest off-cycle request for additional resources, which hasn't yet been addressed. This experience makes very evident the need for an independent funding mechanism for my office, equivalent to the one in place for the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. Such a mechanism would not only better address our needs but also reduce the possibility of a real or apparent conflict of interest between my office and the government.
My team continues to work diligently and professionally, despite a lack of resources. Their work contributes to maintaining a safe space for whistleblowers and an impartial investigation process that protects the rights of all.
I thank you for the opportunity to address this committee and welcome any questions that you may have.
Conservative
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Madam Solloway, for being here today.
Since this committee began investigating the arrive scam scandal, many of the public servants who have come forward about gross mismanagement have been suspended. Would you say that this is a usual practice that you have encountered with this government?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
I can't really comment. As you probably know, I've only been back in Canada for about a year, so I really have no comment.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Okay.
I'm sure when you were brought into the position, you were given a briefing, which probably would have included previous cases, and you would have done an evaluation of the historical conduct of this government, but we'll continue.
Has your office been involved in the investigation of any of the ArriveCAN suspensions that have occurred so far?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
We have been seized by.... I believe it was this very committee where we received a disclosure. As notified, we have undertaken an investigation that is related to ArriveCAN.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Is there any information you can provide about the investigation so far?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
I can only say that it is ongoing.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Okay.
Can you provide any information about the investigation relative to Cameron MacDonald?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
I cannot.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Can you provide any information about the investigation into Mr. Antonio Utano?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
I cannot.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Are you aware that the IT person who submitted an internal complaint in the CBSA about Minh Doan's deleted emails has now been suspended?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
I cannot comment.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Okay.
Are you concerned that there seems to be a culture of reprisal at the CBSA?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
I cannot comment.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Okay.
Are you concerned that there seems to be a culture of reprisal within the government at large?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
I cannot comment.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Okay.
Will this government be able to improve its internal management and effectively run government programs if it suspends any public servant who dares to speak out against department executives, would you say?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
I cannot comment.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Why, in your opinion, is this government so eager to suspend any public servants who speak out against their management instead of using its insight to fix the broken system?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
I cannot comment.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Your office currently has 161 files on hold, which is five times the number of cases that your office typically is expected to investigate each month. In your opinion, what has driven this significant increase in the complaints of wrongdoing?
Commissioner, Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner
In my opinion, it's a greater awareness of the existence of our office.
It was established in 2007, and it typically takes a long time in an organization the size of the federal government for people to become aware that something exists and also how to access it.
I can say that across Canada, my provincial counterparts seem to be experiencing the same sort of increase as, I think, their systems mature as well.