Government Operations Committee on May 10th, 2022

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Were you consulted on that?

[Kevin Mooney]

Irving Shipbuilding had the responsibility to run the procurement process for them. We helped provide the scoring and all that, but we did not have access to the final scoring.

Kevin, perhaps you could provide more detail.

[Kevin Young, Senior Vice President, Canadian Surface Combatant, Irving Shipbuilding Inc.]

Yes.

Irving assisted in the procurement process, but the requirements, the capabilities expected, the overall scoring and the expectations and decisions that came from it were all made by Canada. Irving was there to facilitate, support and provide advice if asked, but all the issues were Canada's decisions. We were there to facilitate and enable.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Among the other possibilities was the FREMM European frigate.

In what way would the FREMM have been better than Type 26, for a manufacturer, and vice versa?

[Kevin Young]

It's a very difficult question to answer, because no FREMM design was offered through the competitive process. There was only an unsolicited bid through Fincantieri, which, as they said last week, didn't meet the requirements that Canada had laid out. It wasn't compliant and it was offered outside of that process. FREMM wasn't offered through another bidder, so we never got to see what that might look like. We got only the bids that were reviewed properly through the formal process as laid out through Canada. The FREMM offer from Fincantieri was outside of that.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

A few weeks ago, a witness told us that Irving had imposed the choice of Type 26 on the federal government.

What would you say to that witness?

[Kevin Young]

There was no imposition from the company on Canada, as I said. Canada set the requirements, the capability and the expectations, and the decision lay with Canada. Type 26, modified to meet the needs of CSC, was the successful bidder through the competitive process activity.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

You talked earlier about the labour market shortage and the challenges around retention and recruitment. Can you speak about how the federal government can support you? Obviously this is applying to all sectors: doctors, lawyers, even border agents and at the airports, as you're hearing. It's right across the whole spectrum.

Mr. Mooney, can you speak about how Canada could best help to support you? Obviously, we have a housing challenge as well, and we can't just rely on immigration to bring people in to fill those jobs when we don't have housing.

[Kevin Mooney]

Right. You mentioned immigration right there. That, for instance, is certainly one of the biggest areas where speeding up the process would help. There's a backlog right now, and we would hope that the national shipbuilding strategy immigration that we are pursuing will take priority, since it's in the national security interest.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I think there's a disconnect right now. There's not a housing strategy that's working cohesively with our immigration strategy to ensure that we have housing to accommodate people to fill those jobs. Do you think the federal government needs to work more with a cohesive plan on housing and immigration?

[Kevin Mooney]

I would highly recommend that. Particularly in Halifax, we're starting to come into a period of housing shortages, and we need affordable housing for our workers to occupy.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

If we talk about smaller shipyards.... I mean, obviously you're a big shipyard. I'm from Port Alberni on the west coast of Vancouver Island, and we're trying to kick off a big floating dry dock, because we have a huge demand for floating dry dock space on the west coast and there's a shortage.

How can the NSS help to support getting the small shipyards to be able to fill some of the needs there, and how can that tie in? As well, how can the federal government create programs for smaller shipyards to be able to get into the business and participate?

[Kevin Mooney]

I'll be honest with you. I'm focused on my shipyard.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'll bet you are—

[Kevin Mooney]

I'm focusing on delivering ships for Canada and—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

—but do you agree it's important that we create capacity in the smaller shipyards so that we can continue with the robust needs for the larger vessels at the bigger shipyards?

[Kevin Mooney]

I think anything that increases the shipyard capability.... On the comments made by my colleague from CADSI, I would agree with those 100%. We need to support the expansion of the maritime industry in Canada, and Irving does that through our value proposition commitments and things like that. We do try to help, and we are interested.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We will now go to Mr. Paul-Hus for five minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Young, you are the senior vice president of Canadian Surface Combatant, is that correct?

You are indicating that is correct.

The federal government payed just over $800 million for the design of the Type 26 combat ship, correct?

[Kevin Young]

No, I don't recognize that number exactly. That's for what?

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

It's for the design.

[Kevin Young]

The design is still ongoing, sir. It's not complete. There's a whole range of activities under the design contract. It's not just to design the vessel but to design the program, lay out the future plans—

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

In the budget you received $800 million—more than that—for the design. That's the number we have actually in the budget.