Government Operations Committee on June 7th, 2022

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

We, as New Democrats, believe that they should.

Are you committed to reining in outsourcing to ensure Canadians are getting value for services and that we maintain institutional knowledge, skills and expertise in the public service?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

One really important thing is that we have a labour shortage right now. We have a skills shortage for delivering many of the government services. One way to do that is to go find contractual work to help us deliver those services.

I can tell you that public servants are really stepping up and also getting the training necessary to bring those skills. We need to have that balance. That is what we're focusing on to make sure we deliver services to Canadians the right way.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Are you committed to creating clear guidelines, so that outsourcing is only pursued as a last resort?

I know you're going to answer and I only have a bit of time left, so I want to thank you for being here. I want to thank your staff, especially the public servants, for the important work they do.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I want to echo that because I know that public servants are really delivering for Canadians, especially in the last two years.

We do have a lack of certain skills, especially in IT and our digital transformation. For example, for the next-gen that we're bringing forward, we are contracting with businesses that are helping us and public servants to have the next pay system that will work for Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Lobb for five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you very much.

In April, the PBO requested some costing in regard to Bill C-13. To date, it has not received any information from the Treasury Board. It was a formal request. Is there a reason why? When can the PBO expect some costing information on Bill C-13?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

As you probably heard, the minister responsible for official languages was very clear on the fact that we are on a path to adopt, I hope, Bill C-13, very soon. Then we will be able to have the necessary funds to see how this new law will be implemented.

I believe that probably at that time we'll be able to evaluate how we will implement the new Bill C-13—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Something caught my ear there. It sounded to me like it hasn't been costed. You're going to implement it and then cost it. Did I just mishear that?

It seems to me that you'd cost it first and then implement it, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Again, there are some costs associated with developing Bill C-13 and in imagining how this will be implemented.

I can maybe ask Monia Lahaie, who probably has the specifics on the—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

It's okay. Thank you. We'll maybe follow up at a later time and see if that information can find its way there.

On June 1, there was an article in the news about a privacy breach for hundreds of employees who were claiming Phoenix damages.

In a case like that, does the Treasury Board report that breach to the Privacy Commissioner? Do they proactively disclose that to the Privacy Commissioner? What date did they disclose that to him?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you for that.

It was very unfortunate that this administrative error was made. Yes, it was reported to the Privacy Commissioner.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you.

I think probably by now I understand that part of your role as the minister for the treasury department is to work with your colleagues and cabinet ministers in a collaborative way, to help them streamline their operations and provide some guidance on that.

First, there are a couple of topics that continuously come up in the news and in question period. It's in regard to processing passports and immigration applications. I'm wondering if you or your department has had any conversations with Minister Gould or Minister Fraser on opportunities to speed those two up and perhaps hire more employees? Can you tell me about that?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I can tell you, yes, there is collaboration with Treasury Board and my colleagues on how to implement the investments for different projects.

With passports, I know that I've had many conversations with Minister Gould to find solutions to increase, for example, the number of public servants returning to the Service Canada workplace to open late at night and on Saturdays. There has been collaboration.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you.

With regard to passports, how many employees have been added to try to catch up with the backlog in applications?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I don't have the number per se, but I can find it. I think I have 600 in mind, but I will get you the exact number of human resources in capacity for the passport delivery.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

In your role, in your mandate letter, I think it talks about streamlining the hiring process. How long does it currently take to hire an employee, and what is the goal? What is your goal for the length of time to hire an employee?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all approach in recruiting employees.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

That's fair enough.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

It depends on which level it is. If it's part time—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Let's say somebody who would process passports. Would there be a time...?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Again, as we know, we're in a difficult situation right now because there's a surge in demand. I understand that Minister Gould found ways with her department, of course, to get some contract workers to help in processing passports.

There are probably part-time workers who are coming to supplement and help in getting those passports done. Then there is, of course, recruitment done for the public service full time in, for example, passport Canada. That's another process. I know that probably Marie-Chantal will be able to complement that answer in the next hour, if you wish.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to Mr. Kusmierczyk for five minutes.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair

Minister, welcome again to the OGGO committee. It's always a good day when you and your team join us at OGGO to testify, and thank you so much for your thoughtful responses and insights this afternoon.

Treasury Board plays an important role in gender and diversity impact reporting across government. We know that GBA+ is really important in identifying gaps, for example, in how diverse populations access key programs. It's critical for us to design better programs that have a bigger impact. We know that, during COVID, the pandemic has only really accentuated the discrepancies, for example, amongst women and diverse populations as well.

Minister, what is your reaction to the recent Auditor General's report on gender-based analysis plus?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

As you know, we are committed to making sure we leave no one behind. This is where gender-based analysis plus policy development helps us focus on how to make sure everybody is considered in the different services and programs we offer. It is now mandatory to have GBA+ in all budget proposals, Treasury Board submissions and MCs—memoranda to cabinet. We're investing over $200 million in disaggregated data and research that will help us better understand how we can bring forward the tools we have—through Treasury Board or budget proposals, for example—to make sure we represent and leave nobody behind.

I can say that, according to the OECD, Canada is a global leader in gender budgeting. We know our work is not complete. There's always a possibility to improve. I know my colleagues around the table, especially Minister Ien, are providing leadership to improve GBA+. Of course, the Auditor General did a very important study. Her report gives us recommendations on how we can improve further, and we welcome these recommendations. Across government, from policy design to program delivery, we will be using her recommendations to improve GBA+.

One more thing I'd like to add is that, as you probably know, I had the privilege, in my former position as associate minister of finance and minister of middle-class prosperity, to develop a quality of life framework. That is another tool to make sure we don't look only at the GDP indicator for budget decisions or creating programs and services. We look at all the outcomes and make sure we represent well-being in our providing services to Canadians.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I appreciate that answer. I'm glad you pointed out that Canada is an OECD leader. Only about half of OECD countries actually incorporate GBA+ into their budgeting and policies, and even fewer are legislated to do so. I believe Canada is one of a handful of countries that does this, so I really appreciate your highlighting our leadership role in that, globally.

I want to now switch gears.

We know that racialized individuals, especially Black Canadians, are among those who are really disproportionately impacted by mental health struggles due, for example, to their lived experiences of systemic racism.

Could you speak to what the government is doing to support the mental health of Black public servants in government?