Government Operations Committee on June 7th, 2022

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a question, and I see that several people are attending the meeting virtually. This leads me to make the following comment. According to the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, the new Treasury Board guidelines on hybrid work do not meet expectations.

What comment do you have on that?

My question is for Mr. Wagner or Ms. Girard.

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

You say that they do not meet expectations, but what expectations did the institute mention to you?

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

It simply said that the guidelines on hybrid work do not meet performance expectations. That's a bit like the questions I asked the minister.

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

It's interesting, because we don't have any yet. We are providing guidance and support to test the different models. It's more flexible on a fixed date and on site, in the workplace, depending on the mission and operations.

I'll just mention this: within a bargaining unit, there are employees who work in different departments. If some employees have to work with a different security clearance, they may be in the same group and at the same classification level, but the operational requirements of the job will mean that one person will be able to work more or less remotely, for example, but that it will be more difficult for the other.

This is where we say that there can be no one-size-fits-all solution. Each department is currently evaluating the formula that works best in its organization.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

A year and a half or two years ago, at the beginning of the COVID‑19 pandemic, the committee received tables showing the number of people working remotely. I would like an update on that. I would like to have a breakdown for each department of how many people are now teleworking and how many people are working on site.

I know it's all decentralized, but you must have that information. Is that the case?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

No, I don't have that information, but I do have information about employee vaccination.

At this time, the various models are being tested. The figures may therefore vary from one week to the next. In order to make these assessments—

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

However, if we want a report on the current situation, there must be a way to get one.

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Each department could provide you with this report. Then again—

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

As far as Treasury Board is concerned, don't you have a responsibility to know where the employees work from?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

No, it's up to the managers and executives of each department to establish which model is the most effective and efficient for fulfilling the organization's mandate. That is what they are evaluated on.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Do you have any idea which department currently has the most employees working virtually?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

No, I have no idea.

However, I can say that, within the same department, there may be people who are allowed to telework while others are not. There are office workers, who use a tablet, and there are people who work behind a counter or at customs.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I'll turn it over to my colleague Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I have one question, which goes back to some of the stuff with Ms. Fortier. It has to do with regard to immigration and passports.

Has the Treasury Board worked with these departments to identify how many workers they are short and need to catch up? What is the number? When do they expect to catch up?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

I don't have that number, but the head of a department facing some specific labour shortages in specific regions can work with the Public Service Commission to develop a targeted strategy based on their needs. As we said, in that case, we're looking at decentralized operations, so they will be looking across the country.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I think from what I read in terms of the Treasury Board, with Madam Fortier's mandate letter, it's to make sure that all departments are streamlined and provide help and consultation.

Has anybody from Treasury Board had discussions with ESDC or had discussions with IRCC? Is that number out there, and is there a date when our constituents will be able to get their passports processed in three to four weeks, like they used to?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

The President of the Treasury Board has been mandated to bring forward a future of work model to ensure that the government is well equipped to deliver on services. The location of work is part of that, but the skills strategy, ensuring that we have data and we understand the trends and the skills that are going to be required in the future to do those jobs, is part of her mandate.

Now, for the very short term, I would, again, mention that there is a possibility to develop initiatives to address those needs, but I don't have the details on the passports, per se.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We started with Mr. Jowhari at today's meeting, and we will end our questioning with Mr. Jowhari, for five minutes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome back. You were dearly missed.

Thank you to the minister and the officials for joining us today.

I'm going to put my question to Mr. Wagner.

Mr. Wagner, if you're not the right official to respond to this, please redirect to your other colleagues who are here.

I, specifically, want to talk about the strategic policy review. There have been many interpretations around what the scope of this review is and there are also many various points of view. We've had points of view around rationalizing the size of the government or, as the minister said, this is not about a smaller government, necessarily, it's about a much smarter and efficient government.

I understand that the scope of the TBS and the responsibility of TBS is always to ensure the best use of, naturally, taxpayers' money while making sure that the operation of the government is very efficient. This is one of the reasons that I decided to join OGGO with my background as a management consultant. I really understand and I really embrace the work that OGGO is doing.

Can you explain how the strategic policy review, as introduced in the budget, will work towards a smarter government that runs more efficiently?

[Paul Wagner]

I'll let my colleague, Madam Boudreau, answer that question. I think she's better positioned to respond to you.

[Annie Boudreau]

The review will ensure programs are effective on challenges like climate change, the pandemic and growing the economy. It will also adapt government to our postpandemic, like I was explaining earlier, reality, such as digitization. It's obviously about getting value for taxpayers' dollars. We're going to be focusing on priorities and making sure that we are doing them better while delivering the goal of sustainability.

Again, using words that were used in budget 2022, it's about looking at our footprint, at real property, at travel—we're doing less and less travel—and at virtual work, which we discussed with you today.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you for that.

You gave us an understanding of what the scope is and what was added. Can you tell us a little bit about the process and what are you trying to achieve through that process? What are the steps that you are going to go through in that process and the end goal you are trying to achieve?

[Annie Boudreau]

If we look at the stream one, it's about the ongoing review of programs. Every year the process will be to select a thematic that we're going to be looking at and making sure that there is no duplication, making sure that we are investing where we should.

I can give you some examples, as well.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

That would be great.

[Annie Boudreau]

We can look, for example, at housing.

We know it's a big priority. Food security could also be another example or high-speed Internet, innovation, skills, youth programming. Every year we're going to be adding a thematic that we're going to be looking at, obviously, in concert with departments and agencies to make sure that we have a good understanding of those programs comprehensively. We're going to be doing horizontal reviews. It's not only one department, my department. We're looking at the spectrum.