Government Operations Committee on Sept. 29th, 2022

[Patrick Palmer]

From Saab's perspective, certainly, the Canadian procurement process is very well defined. It's highly bureaucratic, but it's very well defined. I think we have a very good appreciation for it.

From a disappointment perspective from me personally, I think the Gripen for Canada offer is second to none. It's unparalleled in terms of the offer of economic benefits to Canada and the future sustainment and support of that aircraft in Canada. We still believe it's the right fighter for Canada for the reasons that Simon talked about earlier.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

All right.

Go ahead, sir.

[Francesco Norante]

In general, procurement can be improved in any country. I've been working in several countries so this is common across the board.

I would say that defence procurement is particularly complex and complicated. My experience here in Canada has been positive. We have a very good interaction with PSPC, with the integrated team. I would be disappointed after I lost my bid. At the moment, I'm still in the honeymoon. I would say so far the interactions have been excellent. I couldn't ask for better than this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

Now we'll go to our second round. We'll go to Mr. McCauley for five minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Great. Thanks.

You'll have to excuse us, gentlemen.

I'm going to introduce my motion. I will use my time rather than the committee time for it. It's the one put on notice a couple of days ago regarding having Irving and PSPC appear to discuss indigenous hiring and indigenous corporations in light of tomorrow being the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation and some of the fine items that Mr. Johns brought up in very good detail about some of the obligations we have.

It can be considered to be part of diversity, but also part of the shipbuilding program as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Could you read that into the record please?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Sure. I move:

That, in the context of its study on the National Shipbuilding Strategy, the committee invite the President of Irving Shipbuilding Inc. and representatives from the company as well as the Deputy Minister of Public Services and Procurement Canada to appear before the committee to answer questions concerning the recruitment of foreign workers and the hiring process of hiring indigenous Canadians or indigenous businesses in the construction of the Canadian Surface Combatants.

Obviously, there are the AOPS as well.

This was the one that was put on notice a few days ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

So members know, it was put on notice. You received it back on Monday. However, it's just being sent out to you again just in case you want to see that.

Is there any discussion?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

One of the other things I wanted to add is obviously the very large news that we saw last week or the week before about bringing foreign workers into the NSS when very clearly we've seen all along that the intent was to build up capacity here among our workers' skills, among Canadian workers.

Also, then, again, in light of reconciliation day tomorrow and the very fine detailed points that Mr. Johns brought up, I think it's incumbent upon us to have the two main people involved explain the issue and what they're doing toward providing indigenous contracts and the hiring and training of indigenous people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. McCauley.

I see Mr. Johns and Mr. Housefather. I'll go to Mr. Johns first.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

First, I think it's a great motion. I want to thank my colleague Mr. McCauley for bringing it forward, but we do want to make some friendly amendments that we're hoping he's open to.

After “workers and the”, we want to strike “hiring process of” and just put “hiring of members of equity-deserving groups, including Indigenous”—we want “Indigenous” capitalized—“or contracting of businesses”—oh, sorry, cross Indigenous out—“businesses owned and operated by members of equity-deserving groups in the construction of the Canadian Surface Combatants”.

Do I just sent the amendment out to everybody?

Do I send it to the clerk?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

If you can get a copy to the clerk....

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

If that's okay, it could go out to everybody.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm generally fine with that. I'm just worried that we may lose the focus. As we've seen in the past studies with this, that gets buried, that specific issue of hiring indigenous or of indigenous businesses. I just want to make sure it doesn't get buried—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

It won't.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

—and that's why I specifically put that, so we could study that specifically. When we look at the NSS, it's going to be 20 to 30 years before these ships are done. There's plenty of time to develop Canadians and talent. I just want to make sure we don't lose that focus, if you understand what I mean.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Otherwise, I'm generally fine with it if Mr. Gords will support—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Johns, do you have that in both languages? We can't distribute it unless you have it in both languages.

If you will give us a copy, the clerk will read it into the record.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Paul Cardegna]

The amendment is essentially to strike the words “hiring process of” and add after the word “hiring”, “of members of equity-deserving groups, including Indigenous peoples”, and adding the words “contracting of businesses owned and operated by members of equity-deserving groups”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Could you read it as amended, please?

[The Clerk]

All right. The text of the motion, if the amendment were adopted, would read as follows.

That, in the context of its study on the National Shipbuilding Strategy, the committee invite the President of Irving Shipbuilding Inc. and representatives from the company as well as the Deputy Minister of Public Services and Procurement Canada to appear before the committee to answer questions concerning the recruitment of foreign workers and the hiring of members of equity-deserving groups, including Indigenous peoples, or contracting of businesses owned and operated by members of equity-deserving groups in the construction of the Canadian Surface Combatants.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

Mr. Housefather, you have the floor.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, I wanted to speak to the principal motion, not really the amendment, so perhaps I could come back when we determine whether the amendment goes through or not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you. Okay.

Is there any further discussion on the amendment? Everyone is good there.

(Amendment agreed to)

Mr. Housefather, you're discussing the motion as amended.