Government Operations Committee on Nov. 24th, 2022

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm afraid you're out of time. We've gone over.

Ms. Thompson, we're going to you, please, next.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

I have a couple of questions. The first is on defence procurement. We have an ongoing study on your defence procurement with regard to the NSS, and certainly there have been hurdles to procuring equipment in Canada over the past 10 years. How has this new procurement improved this process?

[Paul Thompson]

Since I've been joined at the table by Simon Page, I think I will maybe allow him to answer this question.

[Simon Page, Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

If I could just clarify the new procurement question I just want to make sure that I'm specifically addressing the question here. I know it's with respect to the NSS, but I just want to clarify what is meant by the “new procurement” mechanism.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

It's anything that's been put in place through the last number of years that's really tied to assist in how we move procurement forward with process and transparency. Are there any general comments you'd like to contribute to the committee?

[Simon Page]

The NSS remains a very complex endeavour. It's a multipronged approach within the NSS. It has three pillars and multiple strategic objectives.

The three pillars are the large ship construction; the smaller ship construction, those less than 1,000 tonnes; and then the refit and maintenance pillar. Across all of these pillars there are different mechanisms and initiatives to improve the way we build and procure ships and even how we design ships and work with the shipyards.

I will outline three pieces that we're specifically working on with the shipyards and within our own governance in Canada.

The first one would be a more sophisticated approach to controlling schedules, costs and scope. That's the earned value management mechanism that we have been using, mainly with the large shipyards and the NSS strategic partners to build large vessels. It's also being used in the refit and maintenance pillar with other shipyards across Canada.

The second one I'll mention is a more elaborate approach with risk management. We dive into risk management at project, program and strategy levels. We do that with the shipyards. We also do that within Canada with our own governance at the ADM level, deputy minister level and with central agencies in the audience, really bringing a comprehensive picture of all of the risks that exist in the NSS.

The last one that I will mention is governance, which I just touched on a little bit. We always strive to improve our governance. I find the governance is pretty tight, but there's always room for improvement. We have introduced, over the course of the NSS, specific executive governance committee meetings with the large shipyards and also for specific projects such as the ferry building project with Transport Canada and Chantier Davie. We have governance at the Government of Canada level and with the shipyards at the project and program level.

Thank you.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

I open this question on a slightly different thread to any of the officials who would like to answer. It relates to gender-based analysis in procurement. Could you talk about what you're doing to support inclusive procurement initiatives? Again, it's for whoever would like to step forward.

[Paul Thompson]

I would again point to the work we're doing through Procurement Assistance Canada outreach. We have strong relationships with women business coalitions. That is certainly an area of focus on the outreach.

We try to link up with other government programs, for example, the women entrepreneurship strategy that our colleagues at Innovation, Science and Economic Development have. We work with the regional development agencies so that the business development programs and investments can align with some of the procurement opportunities. We're trying to join up the efforts in that regard.

Those are some of the comments that I would make on that.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

I may have a few minutes left until I'm told that's it.

Mr. Thompson, I'd like a moment of your thoughts on coming out of the pandemic, which created tremendous stress in all of the departments, particularly procurement, and the initiatives you put in place across all files within the department. Are there general comments on the work that highlights for you the processes and the strengthening of processes as we continue within a hybrid world with the multiple challenges that seem to come both globally and health-wise in Canada?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm afraid Mr. Thompson is looking at me. He realizes there's no time. He seems to be signalling that he will get back to committee on that.

We have Ms. Vignola, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Page, thank you for being here.

I imagine you can guess what I am going to ask you. I want to talk about the framework agreement for the third partner in the national strategy.

I do not want to know the details. I would simply like to know if an agreement is close to being signed. If so, can we expect it to be signed by the end of 2022 or rather in 2023?

[Simon Page]

Discussions on the framework agreement are proceeding very well. We are in negotiations. We received all the information from Davie Shipbuilding last spring, in about April 2022. This summer, in early July, we indicated that its bid met the standards. Since then, we have been in negotiations. They are highly complex, because there are complex aspects to be managed and discussed. I would say the negotiations are about 95% complete. The government certainly hopes to complete everything in the coming weeks.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'm really happy for the Davie workers.

Mr. Perron, my next question is for you.

In the appropriations to be passed, there are funds of just over $18 million to cover the costs of providing basic information technology services. This is in addition to some $25 million already provided.

First, I would like to know what is meant by basic information technology services. Maybe I'm repeating myself, but I hope not.

Secondly, what makes it so unpredictable that we have to ask for more money in a supplementary budget?

[Sony Perron]

In fact, these are the licences that one has to pay for so that each of the employees can have access to basic telecommunication tools, such as emails or Teams.

What is unpredictable is that each federal department is going to have new programs and new activities and is going to seek budgets for that. In this context, departments will determine whether they need more full-time equivalents or more person-years. Part of the financial demand will then include the cost of providing these services.

When you offer a licence, you have to pay a supplier. That's the model. That's the only way to do it.

Maybe one day I'll be told that we have to return money because we won't need to cover the cost of these licences. Then there might be a reduction—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Perron, I'm afraid we've gone over time already.

Thank you. Maybe you can finish your reply to the committee in writing.

Mr. Johns, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Your department's mandate letter includes working with the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities and the Minister of Natural Resources to “introduce a new Buy Clean Strategy to support and prioritize the use of made-in-Canada low-carbon products in Canadian infrastructure projects.”

However, PSPC's most recent departmental plan makes no mention of a buy clean strategy. Despite broad support from industry, labour and the environmental community for a buy clean strategy, it seems little progress is actually being made on this front.

The supplementary estimates (B) do propose to transfer $235,000 from the National Research Council to the Treasury Board to support the implementation of a buy clean secretariat for federal procurement. However, I'm not aware of any timeline for an actual strategy to be introduced.

Can you explain if PSPC is actually working on the development of a buy clean strategy and when this might be introduced?

[Paul Thompson]

Thank you for the question.

We are indeed actively working on a buy clean strategy. We're not idle in the meantime. Lots of activity is happening in green procurement and in waste diversion. A new cement standard has been introduced into our procurement of building materials, for example.

The mandate letter called for the overall strategy over the course of the mandate. I don't have more specific timing on when the strategy would be released, but there's active work on it at present.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Okay.

The Public Health Agency of Canada is requesting $50 million to stabilize core capacities for the national emergency strategic stockpile. Ongoing medication shortages—not just of fever medications but basic antibiotics like amoxicillin—are a serious concern for Canadians.

Will PSPC be involved with work around the strategic stockpile? If so, how will it encourage the domestic manufacturing of essential pharmaceuticals?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Give a fast answer, please.

[Paul Thompson]

I would just say that we're actively engaged with partners on the biomanufacturing strategy. There are partnerships, such where Novavax has partnered with the biologics manufacturing facility in Montreal. That's one example and we'll continue to look for such opportunities.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mr. Johns.

That's our time. We are pretty much done for the day, but I want to use the chair's prerogative to ask a couple questions, if I may.

Mr. Page, regarding the CC-295, the Kingfisher, could you very briefly run us through your role, PSPC's role, with that? The committee had asked for documents regarding the Kingfisher from PSPC and received a reply that zero documents existed in your department on that. Can you let us know who this committee should be calling to discuss the ongoing development production problems of the Kingfisher, please?

[Simon Page]

Thank you for the question.

With respect to the fixed-wings, our CC-295 Kingfisher project is progressing. We have accepted 14 aircraft out of 16. We are accepting these aircraft now in Spain. That's the base aircraft.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

When you say “we”, who is we?

[Simon Page]

“We” would be your defence procurement team, so a combination of the Department of National Defence—a client department in this case—ISED Canada and PSPC. When I speak about the defence procurement strategy governance, those are the three departments at the table.