Thank you.
It's certainly good to be back at this committee, although I wish it weren't under these circumstances. This is something we certainly picked up in the last session of government. With other companies we found a pattern—companies like Deloitte, PricewaterhouseCoopers and many, many others—of this kind of consultant-class outsourcing of government services and contracts. While it is the case that it may be a relatively nominal increase for McKinsey from 2006 to 2015 of about $2.2 million, from 2015 at $100 million, plus over 23 contracts, it's significant. My concern, like that of my counterparts on the opposition side, is that while it might be simplistic and easy in terms of low-hanging fruit to narrow the scope of this study to just McKinsey, it would provide, in my opinion, and I think the government would agree, greater value to Canadians in terms of value for money for their tax dollars, to get a better look at where this is happening.
I disagree with my friend Mr. Housefather in terms of this just being a procurement issue and when we should or shouldn't procure and outsource our services and our decision-making, because there's an ethical question about the relationships with Mr. Dominic Barton. That's just a fact. Having policies in place around procurement that would provide, in my opinion, clearer and more defined understandings of what those types of perceived conflicts of interest might look like.... It is my thinking that if we were to look at the other consultant-class contracts that are out, we may find similar things.
I'm not suggesting that this committee embark on some kind of fishing expedition. If you look at the numbers, McKinsey is certainly one of the most atrocious human rights violators in the list, but there's significant contracting out to Deloitte as well. That's something we heard time and time again, at both OGGO and in my time at public accounts.
As to the dates, yes, right off the bat we certainly support backtracking to 2011, but in my early participation in this committee on this particular study, I would suggest that we also consider revisiting some of the other contracts that have seen significant lifts in their procurement, as well as who is deciding on the incremental increases year after year. It's one thing to underbid for a contract and tell the government you're going to provide value for money, and underbid everybody else, but then when the re-signing of the contract comes back and we're seeing sometimes a 160% increase on the contract, I don't think that's an ethical procurement practice either.
I know my friend will have a series of amendments. There will probably be a series of amendments around the table. That's fine. My hope, though, is that the outcomes from this will change the practices, policies and procedures in a way that is so clear for the Canadian public that future governments will have a very difficult time doing the same—getting caught in a situation where they may or may not have close personal ties to senior leadership in some of these consulting contracting companies.
To close, Mr. Chair—by the way, it's good to see you in the chair, Kelly—I'll say this. There are enough conspiracy theories out there about deep state and all this other stuff around shadow government. These types of things don't help. It's not helpful when the government takes this tack and does this kind of close relational procurement with insiders and friends.
That being said, I'll certainly support this. My hope is that in future amendments to come from my friend and others around the table, we contemplate some of the other points I brought up.
Thank you.