This is where the civil service has to play a role, too, in terms of what it wants and what it finds frustrating. I've had two and a half years in the civil service, and I would say that I'm deeply impressed with the quality of people. Deeply. They work incredibly hard; they have high standards and they've been overwhelmed in the last five years. There's been a heck of a lot of stuff happening. The thing is to also ask them what we should be doing in terms of training.
My personal view is that the human resource systems are weak, if I'm blunt about it. They're weak in terms of the training, the career pathing and the mentoring that goes on, yet we have really good people.
We should be looking at how we can further develop their roles and what they do to build the capacity. That's fundamentally what I believe. I think we should involve them, because they will see where it is. Ultimately, they're making decisions, but I think the nature of the work has shifted over the last five years.