Government Operations Committee on Feb. 8th, 2023

[Mona Fortier]

McKinsey & Company bids in competitions. In some instances, it was awarded sole-source contracts. Mr. Huppé could provide you with a list of sole-source contracts awarded after McKinsey went through the required steps to qualify as a sole-source supplier. It is then up to the officials and departments to determine whether this was done in compliance with the procurement management directive.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

You are obviously aware of the fact that in 2020, there was a class action suit in Canada against McKinsey & Company for its involvement in the opioid crisis. In 2021, the year in which the Government of Canada awarded it the most contracts, it agreed to pay $600,000 in compensation for its involvement in the opioid crisis in the United States.

Why did the government continue to award contracts to McKinsey after learning about these ethics problems, as confirmed by court judgments?

[Mona Fortier]

As you know, the Integrity Regime was established in 2015 by the previous government, and we abide by the regime's principles.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Does this mean they did not do their work properly in terms of integrity?

It was widely known that the McKinsey firm was involved in some rather serious situations. People died in the United States and Canada as a result of what they did.

Are you telling me that that no one was aware of any problems?

[Mona Fortier]

I'll say it again: Under the integrity regime, a supplier that has in the past three years been convicted of an offence listed in the ineligibility and suspension policy will be declared ineligible for a period of 10 years. That's what the policy provides.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

What is the current status of McKinsey in this respect?

[Mona Fortier]

At this time, McKinsey is not deemed to be an ineligible supplier under the integrity regime.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Okay. Is…

[Mona Fortier]

I believe that…

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Ms. Fortier, please.

[Mona Fortier]

... the minister, Ms. Jaczek, Gave you some information about that last Monday…

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Ms. Jaczek didn't provide much information, unfortunately. She didn't know much about it.

[Mona Fortier]

... and she's in a better position to give you an answer, because she's the person who manages the regime.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I understand, but you're the president of the Treasury Board and are responsible for public funds. We are currently studying the matter of awarding Canadian government contracts to McKinsey & Company.

Can you tell me whether, at the moment, the review of McKinsey has led to there being no active contracts with them?

[Mona Fortier]

I didn't understand your question. Can you explain it?

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

You said that there was a compliance review system to determine whether a company meets…

[Mona Fortier]

The directive public servants must follow is the procurement management directive.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Everyone knows there has been a problem since 2020, and that it got worse in 2021.

Two years on, in 2023, can you tell me whether McKinsey can still do business with the government of Canada? Has no one just said, "that's it"?

[Mona Fortier]

At the moment, the supply management directive gives a clear explanation of the process involved in awarding contracts to companies.

I could give you…

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

That doesn't tell me anything.

I'll ask you the question again, Minister.

Is McKinsey and Company still doing business with the government of Canada?

According to the reviews carried out, is this company still considered reliable?

[Mona Fortier]

It is still doing business with the government of Canada. It is still eligible as a company according to the reviews.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

In spite of everything the company did, isn't there anyone who feels the government should stop doing business with them?

[Mona Fortier]

As I mentioned earlier, McKinsey is not considered an ineligible supplier under the integrity regime at this time.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

From a policy standpoint, do you think we should stop doing business with McKinsey and Company?

[Mona Fortier]

McKinsey is not considered an ineligible supplier under the integrity regime at this time. There is a regime in place, and that's what we apply.