Evidence of meeting #59 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
It would be very convenient if people who were doing work for the growth council were simultaneously doing work for the government on paid projects or seeking paid projects. We know from the email record that your predecessor, Andrew Pickersgill, supplied analysts for the growth council and was also involved in soliciting work for the government.
Can you confirm that's the case?
5:30 p.m.
Senior Partner, McKinsey & Company
McKinsey did provide analysts and analytical resources to support the growth council.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Pickersgill provided those analysts and also was soliciting work from the government. Is that correct?
5:30 p.m.
Senior Partner, McKinsey & Company
Again, McKinsey was providing analysts to support the growth council.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
The same person who was providing that analysis was also soliciting work from the government.
Does that seem like a conflict of interest to you?
5:30 p.m.
Senior Partner, McKinsey & Company
I have a couple of thoughts.
First of all, McKinsey signed a document with the growth council stipulating that we had to adhere to the conflict of interest requirements of the federal government, which we did.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Right, but sir, you're not answering my question.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
My question is, does it seem like a conflict of interest that your predecessor, Andrew Pickersgill, was simultaneously supplying analysts and analysis to the government while also soliciting paid work from the government? Does that seem like a conflict of interest to you?
5:30 p.m.
Senior Partner, McKinsey & Company
Conversations between an advisory firm and the government are a routine procedure.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
March 29th, 2023 / 5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witness for joining us today.
Some have criticized McKinsey, saying that it has created a shadow public service and provides no long-term value to the public service.
Is there skill transfer from your company to public servants that they can benefit from after a contract ends?
5:30 p.m.
Senior Partner, McKinsey & Company
Yes, there is.
As I alluded to previously, in every contract we take on with the federal government there is a component of skill building.
For example, as I alluded to, when we did digitization work for IRCC part of our contract was to help build what they call a digital lab. This is a group within IRCC that is staffed up with digital experts, scrum masters, data scientists, data engineers, graphical user interface designers and workflow designers that could work across the rest of the government digitizing other processes without support from McKinsey.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay.
Some have accused your company of working for governments and regulators while simultaneously working for corporations lobbying for change.
Can you explain to the committee any safeguards or policies your company has in place to prevent abuse or transfer of information between McKinsey staff?
5:35 p.m.
Senior Partner, McKinsey & Company
This, again, is a critical question.
First of all, McKinsey takes client confidences and the management of client data very seriously. It is the core of who we are. As I said previously, the fact that we have been in business for a 100 years on this model, where two-thirds of our clients are long-standing repeat clients, provides evidence that we know how to manage this data.
On top of that, we are required to comply with the federal government's requirements on data management, data integrity, data security and data protection. We have fully dedicated teams internally in Canada and globally whose sole job is to ensure that we comply with those rules and to ensure that the data is protected and secure.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay.
When asked about how the government can reduce its reliance on outsourcing at improved capacity, Dominic Barton was blunt in saying, “My personal view is that the human resource systems are weak".
Would you agree? What suggestions would you offer to improve?
5:35 p.m.
Senior Partner, McKinsey & Company
I think it's best if I let Dominic Barton and Dominic Barton's testimony stand.
My personal experience in the interactions I've had is that they have been positive and terrific and that the civil service has really high-quality folks.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay.
There has been criticism during prior committee meetings that McKinsey, rather than the public sector or ministers, is making policy decisions. How would you respond to those claims?
5:35 p.m.
Senior Partner, McKinsey & Company
McKinsey has not made and does not and will not make policy decisions.
As you've heard from other witnesses at this committee, they have supported that point of view.
We do not make policy.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Finally, if we have time, in your view, do consulting firms have an appropriate level of accountability to Canadians?
5:35 p.m.
Senior Partner, McKinsey & Company
Yes. I can't comment on the other consulting firms, but McKinsey does have significant accountability to Canadians.
I'd like to offer an example. The government, when it puts contracts together with us, requires that we achieve certain performance standards for our contract to be continued. If we do not achieve the standards and the deliverables stipulated in the contract, our contract ceases. I think that's a wonderful practice to ensure that the government is getting value from its consultants.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you, Mr. Bains.
We now have Mrs. Vignola for two and a half minutes.
Go ahead, please.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you very much, Chair.
If I understand you correctly, McKinsey provides advice, for example, to the Economic Growth Advisory Council. It provides data and analytical resources. The data is global, is anonymized, and is used in analytical tools.
Did I get that right?