Government Operations Committee on April 17th, 2023

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

As to the equally friendly amendment from my colleague about the number of meetings, I'm open to the idea that we add the number of meetings necessary. We do, however, have to keep in mind that the study should be finished before the end of the parliamentary session in June. We just have to make sure that we finish on time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Colleagues, are we okay with the amendment?

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. Mr. Johns moved a friendly amendment—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes, the clerk has that. We're going to vote on the original motion and then the amendment, or the other way round.

I'm sorry. It's the amendment and then the motion.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Do we need a recorded vote or all we all good? I think we're good with the amendment.

(Amendment agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to)

That's perfect.

Before we get to you, Mr. Johns, there are a couple of things that I need to clear up with Bill C-290, and I'd like to do that while we're still on track there, if you don't mind.

On the deadline for amendments on Bill C-290, an act to amend the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act, I would like to set it for May 3, 2023, by noon, if that's fine with everyone. The committee will commence clause-by-clause for Bill C-290, an act to amend the PSDPA, on Monday, May 8, 2023. We have May 10 being held as well if we can't get through that on the clause-by-clause. Are we all comfortable with that?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We had the GG for May 1. We'll just play that by ear now for witnesses as we see. That's perfect.

Just quickly, for the rest of May, we have four open dates. We've confirmed the Treasury Board. We're just waiting to hear from PSPC on the date for one of the meetings. There will be three open meetings. The next one is for the PBO.

Actually, there will be three open meetings, one for the PBO and one for PSPC. Then, colleagues, could you give this some thought? Traditionally in the past for the main estimates, we've invited the other departments that report to OGGO. We've had PCO. We've had Canada Lands in the past. We've had PSPIB in the past. We've had the secretariat that looks after meetings. Perhaps colleagues could give thought to that, or to Canada Post, which we haven't had for a while. Give it some thought. We can discuss at the very next meeting, about filling in the last spot for the main estimates, but we can discuss that on Wednesday, please.

Ms. Vignola, is the translation okay?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Good.

Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I think earlier we talked about the cost of the studies, and I just want to get an idea because I think it's important for us to be prudent.

Mr. Chair, you did talk about a previous study that required more documents than this study on McKinsey, which really helps to give us some scope on things.

I want to move a motion, and I have it ready to be circulated to the committee. It's in both official languages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

This isn't coming from ESDC, is it?

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

No, it's not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Would you like to read it into the record, Mr. Johns?

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Yes. I move:

That, in regard to the motion adopted on January 18, 2023, for the committee to undertake a study regarding the federal government consulting contracts awarded to McKinsey & Company, the committee request the total cost to date and estimated costs to complete parts (c) and (d) of the motion, broken down by cost type and by each department, agency, or Crown Corporation, and that this information be provided by 5:00 p.m. EDT on May 5, 2023.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Is there debate, anyone?

We'll go to Mrs. Block and then Ms. Kusie.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Johns, would you like it in both official languages, and would you like it unredacted?

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Yes, very much so. I still want the same thing you do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Colleagues—if you'll allow me—there are a couple of items, and I'll mention this to you and Mr. Johns. I don't know if someone wishes to amend this or if you wish to withdraw it and redo it, but we could actually ask the PBO to do it, because the PBO would provided it in this timeline and in a non-partisan fashion.

One of the things I will note on this motion, Mr. Johns, is—having submitted many Order Paper questions—the costs, as in added costs as opposed to costs that they would have incurred anyways. For example, five full-time employees assigned to it would have been a sunk cost to us anyway. Order Paper questions have come back very murky unless you're a lot more detailed in your request. This is more of an FYI.

Go ahead, Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I don't think I would have an issue with the PBO's taking this on by this date, if that's something that my colleagues here would be open to supporting.

Actually, I really appreciate your thoughtful feedback.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes. It's just that, having done very similar OPQs on this, it's not going to come back in a readable fashion, I suspect.

Mrs. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Are you suggesting that Mr. Johns withdraw this motion and take it back and call for the PBO to undertake to do this on behalf of the committee?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Sure, or someone could just offer a friendly amendment to change it.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Yes, I'd move that.

The addition, Mr. Chair, would be that it would read “the committee request the Parliamentary Budget Officer provide total cost to date and estimated costs to complete”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry. Was there someone on the Liberal side who had a hand up? I heard “Mr. Chair”, but I didn't look up in time.

Are we comfortable with that, colleagues?

Mr. Johns, we're going to read it back with the amendment.