Evidence of meeting #61 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was whistle-blowers.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm afraid that is your time for now.
We'll finish with Mr. Johns.
You have two and a half minutes. Go ahead, please.
6:40 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I've asked Mr. Garon this. One benefit of the bill is that it would allow public servants to report wrongdoing to an officer in the portion of the public sector in which they are employed and not just to their immediate supervisor.
Would it have helped you, Mr. Sabourin, to have had that in place? Could you speak about the potential of pursuing more than one method of recourse and resolution?
April 19th, 2023 / 6:45 p.m.
Retired Junior Officer, Canada Border Services Agency, As an Individual
If I understand the question correctly, you're saying if someone had the opportunity to approach a supervisor to—
6:45 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I'm saying if you could go beyond your own immediate supervisor.
6:45 p.m.
Retired Junior Officer, Canada Border Services Agency, As an Individual
I went to every level in the chain of command to explain that situation, and the system failed me. What I'm stating is that we need to have an independent area to report to, so that, as I said earlier, a proper investigation could be done without anybody knowing what's going on. Even the person we report could still establish whether there's any merit to what we bring forward without causing discomfort to anybody.
When we report to our supervisor or anybody else in the chain of command, especially if it involves the people in the chain of command, there's not much we can do. There's no way this information or any type of administrative action will be initiated.
I hope I've understood and clarified the question.
6:45 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
That's perfect.
Ms. Forward, one of the critical improvements that we believe needs to be made to the act is expanding whistle-blower protections to contractors who do public service work. We're seeing all this outsourcing and all of these contractors coming in.
Maybe you've seen contractors who witness wrongdoing and want to report it and those who do report it. Can you speak about the importance of that?
6:45 p.m.
President and Executive Director, Whistleblowing Canada Research Society
I haven't heard a lot. I've heard about a couple of big cases. I think it's obvious that anybody who has witnessed wrongdoing on the part of any government entity or any entity whatsoever should be protected. Many countries protect all of their citizens. Doing so is part of their legislation. Any citizen, without qualification, who reports wrongdoing to authorities who can do something about it is protected. There's no reason Canada should be different.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you very much.
Colleagues, that is our time.
I just want to ask one brief question, Mr. Sabourin.
Could you explain why they were destroying those passports? Please walk me through it.
6:45 p.m.
Retired Junior Officer, Canada Border Services Agency, As an Individual
I have no valid explanation for you as to why they were doing it. They basically said that they had no obligation to tell me because I was a junior officer, but I explained to them that what they were doing was a criminal offence.
With my 12 years of experience in that unit, I cannot explain to you why they were doing it. The explanation they provided to me made no sense. I challenged them on it, and I verified their doings. It was not valid.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you very much. Thanks for being with us today.
Ms. Forward, thank you as well. It's wonderful to see you. You mentioned the U.S. It was actually the Revolutionary War with their navy. The U.S. is blessed with a senator from Iowa—Senator Chuck Grassley—who's called the patron saint of whistle-blowers. I'm hoping that through what we've started today and started earlier that perhaps we can have 11 or 12 further patron saints, in Canada, for whistle-blowers.
Thank you both sincerely for your time today.
Colleagues, if there's nothing else, we are adjourned. Thank you.