Government Operations Committee on May 31st, 2023

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

—and I get a chance to monitor and look at the spending.

I do understand that seniors are struggling, and we are addressing many of these challenges. We need to continue, of course. The cost of living is going up, and we know that we need to continue to focus, so conversations are important.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

Minister, as the President of the Treasury Board, you're the key in terms of unleashing the funds. I brought to your attention the matter of assets that you have, buildings that you're considering selling. I know a local MP here in Ottawa said he's looking at talking to the development community to see what those assets would be worth and turning them into housing.

What we want to be sure of is that they turn into non-market housing and that it's done with full consultation with indigenous people. I just talked to my colleague from Nunavut, who has constituents in her riding whose children are walking to school every day. They live in overcrowded houses. They walk by buildings that have been sitting empty for a decade—a decade—while they're living in absolutely terrible conditions.

What are you going to do to ensure that those assets are going to be developed for housing for Canadians and not through a developer model, a for-profit model?

I know you've talked about some of the $40,000-program that you offer, but this is really a developer-driven model of delivering housing in this country. It's very similar to what the Conservatives are offering.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Again, I will say that we are working very hard on the national housing strategy. There are many initiatives, I know, being from a very important community in Ottawa—Vanier—where housing is very needed. We are continuing to work with partners, developers, the city and the province to offer affordable housing.

The rapid housing initiative is rolling right now. It's very important. After speaking with Minister Vandal, I know that there are initiatives up north and I know that it is important to continue. As you can see in the main estimates, many of these housing initiatives are being invested in—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'm sorry. I have so little time. I appreciate that, but the rapid housing initiative is breadcrumbs, really, for what's needed right now. There is—

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

It was a $2.5-billion investment in the last budget.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

It is not showing up in my riding. That's for sure. We need help with that.

Minister, the free market has never solved affordable housing, ever, anywhere in the world. You can't point to a place where that model has worked.

One thing I do know is that every year, on April 28, we recognize the importance of workers who have been injured at work. We know that if you're not back to work within one year and you've been injured in the workplace, then you have about a 1% chance of ever returning to work.

I worked with your colleague Minister Qualtrough to create the first-ever disability management degree program for workplace health sciences at Pacific Coast University in my riding. The university is working with partners around the world. I want to know that you're going to ensure the continuation of that program after 2024 and that you're going to apply it to the whole of government. If you don't accommodate workers when they're injured, then the 99% who don't return within a year never return.

Maybe you can also table to this committee how many workers who are not working have been injured in the public service. It would be good to have that number so that we have an idea of it, and we can work with you to ensure that we're getting on top of this issue.

Mr. Chair, would that be something that the committee would...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm going to interrupt. I'm afraid that is our time.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Okay. I'll send a note.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You can address, in writing, the issues that Mr. Johns has brought up. We have passed, in this committee, a motion requiring it within three weeks, so if you can send that to the committee, we'd appreciate it.

We're now on to our five-minute rounds.

Ms. Kusie, go ahead, please.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Madam President, the Treasury Board has oversight as to the directive on the management of procurement. With our study on McKinsey, there has been a lot of scrutiny and discussion over how to strengthen the integrity regime. I certainly hope this will include reviewing the ineligibility and suspension policy.

Because of your appearance here, I know you're aware that we recently studied McKinsey. Thank you very much for that. We studied them because of the ethical breaches within their organization.

I've reviewed the regime quite extensively. The exemptions within the part 4 applications seem very extensive, but I'm also particularly shocked that McKinsey passed the integrity regime. Particularly relative is section 6, part (b)(v). That part relates to a supplier that has been convicted of an offence. I recognize that McKinsey was not convicted of an offence in the U.S., but the $600-million payout to 49 different jurisdictions, I think, warrants a really close evaluation by the Government of Canada before heading into business with McKinsey and Company. I also think paragraph (vi) of the same section 6, part (b), bears consideration—the trafficking of a substance—which I believe is certainly relative to McKinsey and its role in the opioid crisis.

What the integrity regime currently excludes is human rights, the rule of law and reckless disregard for the health and well-being of Canadians.

With that, I am giving a notice of motion to this committee. Chair, again, to be clear, I'm not moving it at this time. I'll read it again for you to hear, Minister:

That the committee report to the House that, in light of the government's announcement that it will join the class action lawsuit against McKinsey & Company for their role in the opioid crisis, the committee calls on the government to reform the integrity regime associated with procurement in order to exclude companies that have shown reckless disregard for the health and well-being of Canadians, and for human rights and the rule of law.

With you being the President of the Treasury Board, who oversees the directive on the management of procurement, what are your thoughts on that motion? Do you think that is a motion you could support, Minister?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you for that.

I'll start by saying—and I said it when I was here for the McKinsey study—that I will of course welcome any recommendation that comes out from this important committee on the study of McKinsey. I can also inform everyone that we will have our reports by June 30, as promised, during the appearance.

Under the previous government, as you mentioned, in 2015 an integrity regime was introduced with the aim of fostering ethical business practices. We agree that we need to strengthen our policies. That's why I've been mandated to strengthen federal procurement policies to integrate human rights, social, environment and corporate governance principles and supply chain transparency principles. I will, as I said, take recommendations coming from this committee to support the minister—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I'm sure there's a lot of support—

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

—responsible for PSPC, who will be reviewing the integrity regime.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I'm hearing a lot of support, and I certainly would welcome you at that time to make an appearance as well when we study the integrity regime when I move this motion and, hopefully, after its passing here in this committee.

Perhaps I could put another motion forward at this time. I will move that you will agree to make an appearance when we discuss this motion and the content of the integrity regime, what's within it and, more importantly, what's excluded from it—as I said, specifically human rights, the rule of law and the reckless medical neglect of Canadians.

I'll put that forward.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Just to be fair, I know that PSPC Minister Jaczek is looking into the integrity regime. Therefore, I know that she will—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

But your role oversees—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry to interrupt both of you. Is that a formal motion?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

It is, yes, Chair. That one is a formal one. The motion I had on notice is not that....

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Okay. Would you like to repeat it for us?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Sure. It's that the minister appear when the integrity regime is being....

Maybe I'll make it specific to the motion. It's when the motion that was put on notice and that I've read into the record has passed and is put forward for discussion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Basically, to sum up, there is a motion on notice to study the integrity regime. I think it's just that the minister would agree to attend when we do the study, in her role—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

That's right, yes, more broadly. Thank you, Chair.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I'm sorry. Are we setting a date or are we just saying “in the spirit of”...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Minister, can we put a simple question for you? Would you agree to appear when the time is appropriate and you're available?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I believe that is Minister Jaczek. If I can contribute to the conversation, of course I want to work with the committee, but I believe that Minister Jaczek will be the one leading this initiative.