Government Operations Committee on June 12th, 2023

[An hon. member]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Great.

I'm sorry. Go ahead, Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I might have confused my colleagues by what I suggested.

I just want to let you know that I'm going to come back to the same point over and over again. I'll make it once so we can save time.

Again, we're asking to vote down these clauses one by one. The reason is that a PSIC decision would already have a judicial review in the Federal Court. Removing the screening role of the commissioner and going straight to a tribunal frankly doesn't make much sense, because it's using a higher legal standard, as opposed to the lower legal standard of the commissioner.

If we allow this to stand, what we're actually going to do is cause a surge in cases to the tribunal, which will cause a surge in costs to the tribunal. It may need a royal recommendation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We'll go to a vote.

Shall clause 14 carry?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. Can we clarify? It's not clear. Are we having a vote to delete the clause or negate the clause? Just to be clear, is it to negate the clause?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's correct.

We'll vote on it.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Are we doing all the clauses he mentioned in one swoop?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

There are clauses 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20 and 23. We will get to them individually, one at a time.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

When were these amendments put forward?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

We sent you a note on the—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

When was the...? Okay, there wasn't. We're just informed now that they want to delete these clauses—negate these clauses, excuse me. That's the proper terminology. I apologize.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Fergus, are you addressing that question?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

To answer that question, there was an email that, I believe, was sent regarding a brief on the tribunal. It was sent from our officials. On page 2 of that note, it talks about the clauses that would need to be negated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Chair, could I ask the officials to comment on how these changes to Bill C-290 would impact the work of the tribunal?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We've already moved to a vote on this, Mr. Kusmierczyk. Maybe on the next one....

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I just think that maybe it would provide us with a bit of a foundation before we get to the vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I think the next one. We have said that we'll move to a vote on it.

Shall clause 14 carry?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, I want to make sure I understood correctly. Are we voting to remove this clause or to keep it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're voting on clause 14, and this will be the vote. I assume that some people will vote to negate, that some will vote no, and that some will vote yes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Wait, Mr. Chair. I do apologize. I was clear until that last second. Can you just clarify for me, please, what this vote is? I think there's a bit of confusion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're voting on whether clause 14 will carry.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

So, voting “yes” will carry it, and voting “no” will negate it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes or negate.... That's a good point, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

We have a tie.

Thank you for making things difficult, but I have an easy answer here. Page 786 of the big green book suggests that the chair vote yes.

(Clause 14 agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

(On clause 15)

Mr. Kusmierczyk, do you want to weigh in now?