Government Operations Committee on Sept. 28th, 2023

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'll jump in quickly.

I'd like to make a suggestion, since the Parliamentary Budget Officer can't be here on October 3. We don't know whether this meeting will be cancelled or not, but I like to be well prepared. So I'd like to suggest a short meeting with certain officials to discuss the replacement of the CP-140 Auroras with P-8A Poseidons. This meeting with officials could take place at the October 3 meeting. If this meeting is ever cancelled, we'll reassess the situation, but that's what I'd suggest.

I move the following motion:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(c), the committee undertake a study on the upcoming replacement of the CP-140 Aurora by the Boeing P-8A Poseidon; and that the committee invite to appear at a meeting: Mary Gregory, Assistant Deputy Minister of Industry, Simon Page, Troy Crosbie and Bill Matthews.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Before we open it up, I suggest, colleagues, that if we get this agreed to, we will try. If we cannot, we will get them for another Tuesday. Again, as I mentioned, it's very iffy about Tuesday afternoon. If we have to cancel it, leave it with us to cancel and reschedule it for another date.

Just for context, this is in regard to the contract for Boeing P-8. There was controversy about Canadian companies looking to put a bid on it.

Would this be for just one day? Okay.

Colleagues, are we comfortable with that? If we can, for Tuesday, we will. Chances are we will not, but if we cannot, leave it to the clerk and me to assign another day.

Yes, Mr. Jowhari.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Yes, I'm supporting having the officials come in for one day. I'm okay with that, so long as it is one two-hour meeting and it's with the officials.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Colleagues, thank you very much. I appreciate your flexibility with that.

Mr. Johns, speak fast.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

We're all dealing with the housing crisis. We're talking about it day in, day out. People are struggling to pay astronomical rents. The developer-driven model hasn't worked. Ms. Atwin got the butt end of it yesterday, when I identified that the private sector has not solved the unaffordable housing crisis anywhere in the world.

I understand the need for partnership. I know that all parties around this table have talked about partnership to create affordable housing with government buildings and government lands. I'd like to hear the spirit of that, because there are underutilized lands and buildings. It needs to be done with free, prior and informed consent, and it must be done with the inclusion of indigenous people in those decisions.

We need to make sure we can't have a repeat of the Greenbelt, where public lands end up in developers' hands. Public lands actually belong in public hands, so we want to make sure that happens. It happened in B.C. that Crown lands ended up in the private sector.

I want us to study it, and I'm going to move a motion:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study to identify opportunities within the Government of Canada's real property portfolio to build non-market housing; that the committee invite witnesses from the Treasury Board, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, as well as the President of the Treasury Board and the Minister for Housing, Infrastructure and Communities; that the study should be at least four meetings; and that the committee report its findings to the House.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I thank Mr. Johns for putting forward a motion on an important issue. It is very much his right during committee business to propose any motion he wants, but I would just respectfully ask if we could have a bit more time on this one, because the notice just came out this morning. We'd like the opportunity to review the motion a bit more and come back to the committee with our proposed approach on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I think Mr. Johns hit a home run with this proposal. We're ready to support this today.

I would simply ask if Mr. Johns would be amenable to including in the list of witnesses the new CEO of the Canada Lands Company, which basically works with partners to develop the federal land holdings, and also to including Canada Post. There have been some really innovative solutions: In Orillia, for example, Canada Post was maintained on the ground floor and affordable housing was built on top of the existing Canada Post building. I'd like to ask them to come in as well.

Again, I would ask that when we're looking at federal lands and real holdings, we consider including the Canada Lands Company, which I think is important, and also Canada Post.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're going to open up a speakers list for Mr. Kusmierczyk's amendment.

Next is Mr. Johns, and then it's Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

On a point of order, could the amendment be read one more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Could you repeat your amendment, Mr. Kusmierczyk? Then we'll go to Mr. Johns.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Yes, for the list of witnesses we would add the CEO of the Canada Lands Company, and we'd also include witnesses from Canada Post who could speak to potential partnerships with Canada Post land holdings in terms of building affordable housing quickly. An example is Orillia. Canada Post and Canada Lands Company are the two we're asking for.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I appreciate your bringing up Canada Lands, because they have not been before OGGO in about six and a half years.

Mr. Johns, do you want to speak to the proposed amendment?

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'm fine with the amendment. I hope everybody is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, since there wasn't the appetite to give us more time, can we have just a two- or three-minute suspension and then come back? I think we can still get it done by the end of the meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We'll suspend for a few minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Colleagues, we are back.

Very briefly, Mr. Johns, I just want to confirm that it's Standing Order 108(3)(c).

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much, sir.

Yes, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I don't entirely agree with Mr. Johns' framing. Initially, I think we should be talking about the problem caused by government gatekeepers that have prevented housing from getting built, but we're very happy to do a study of issues around housing. Of course this is an important issue. We're not voting to endorse everything he said; we're voting on the motion.

I would just propose.... First of all, what I think will pass quickly is that we add, after “Communities”, “and other witnesses”. Is there agreement on that? I think that may be implied, but—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're on Mr. Kusmierczyk's amendment.

Mr. Kusmierczyk, I'm not sure if you heard—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Actually, I can ask for unanimous consent at any time.

Is there unanimous consent to add “and other witnesses”?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes, just as long as Mr. Kusmierczyk is listening in.