Government Operations Committee on Sept. 28th, 2023

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

No, I'm not commenting on that.

Can you come back to me after that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I will.

Have we accepted the subamendment?

Mr. Genuis, are you speaking to the subamendment?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, the subamendment is accepted. I think we have accepted the amendment as well—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm asking that. Before I even continue you have your hand up, before we can even close the subamendment.

Are we fine with the subamendment, colleagues?

(Subamendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Perfect.

Mr. Genuis, go ahead.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Secondly, the language in our original motion said, “Given the international embarrassment created by the Liberal Government”. This was replaced in the proposed motion of Mr. Johns by saying, “Given the international embarrassment created by the Speaker”.

I don't agree with his framing. I suspect he wouldn't agree with my framing.

In the interest of consensus language, how about we amend it to say, “Given the international embarrassment created by allowing a former soldier of a Nazi”. It's essentially taking out the giving of blame one way or the other. I think that gives us something that we're all comfortable with.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It's taking out “by the Speaker” or “by the government”.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, it's just taking out “by the Speaker” so that it reads, “Given the international embarrassment created by allowing a former”. I don't think that just trying to lay it at the Speaker's feet is accurate, but I'm not going to propose what is obviously a minority view on who's responsible either. I think that if we want to get to a consensus, let's try to get it there. That's the amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Kusmierczyk, this is on Mr. Genuis's just removing the word “Speaker”. In the original one, it would be removing “Government”.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I disagree. I believe that Mr. Johns'.... Again, I go back to his original intent, including the fact that the words that it was caused “by the Speaker” are, I believe, the most accurate version of what transpired. I would prefer that we stick with that, but I do have one small amendment that I would like to propose as well, and I think it's a critical one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Are you proposing a subamendment to Mr. Genuis's amendment, or can we deal with Mr. Genuis's amendment first and then you can propose your amendment?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

We can deal with Mr. Genuis's first, but I do hope, Mr. Chair, that you come back to me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I will consider your hand up.

Does anyone else wish to speak to Mr. Genuis's amendment?

If you notice, every time I say Garnett's name, I pronounce his last name differently, so I hope you're all keeping track. I think I'm up to nine.

Does anyone else wish to speak on Mr. Genuis's amendment, which is basically removing “Speaker” or the original “Government”?

Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I would prefer not to remove it, but if it's a pathway for us to getting through this, working collectively, I absolutely would support it. We need to work together here, and I think that is a way forward. I think we need a pathway forward. We're sending a letter to PROC. Let them figure out what they want to do in terms of how they want to conduct this study, but we're encouraging them to move quickly on this. I think that's generally what we're trying to agree on here.

I appreciate Ms. Kusie's bringing this forward, because this is a really important issue. We need PROC to make this—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I appreciate that compromise, Mr. Johns.

Can we go to a vote on Mr. Genuis's amendment, please, which is, again, just taking out the word “Speaker”, which modifies the original motion, which took out “Government”.

I have Madame Vignola.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to make sure I understand this correctly. We would remove the word “Speaker” and the words “Liberal government,” is that correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

The original motion took out “Government”. Then it proposed to put in “Speaker”. This amendment would take out “Speaker”, so we would not have “Speaker” or “Government”. It would just say, “Given the embarrassment created by allowing a former soldier”.

Colleagues, can we go to a vote on that?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Could we have a recorded vote, Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We'll have a recorded vote, and then we'll go to Mr. Kusmierczyk, please, after the vote.

[The Clerk]

The vote is five yeas and five nays.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I will vote in favour.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Mr. Kusmierczyk had an amendment. We will discuss that.

Go ahead, sir.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I understand that the first line of the sentence as it currently stands in the motion is “Given the embarrassment”. I would also move a friendly amendment to add the word “hurt”, so it would be “Given the hurt and embarrassment”. Fundamentally, it's important.

For the people who were hurt by this—be they Jews, Poles or other victims of Nazi atrocities—I think that is our driver: that we prevent such hurt from being repeated. I think it's important that we include that word.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, sir.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have one more amendment, last one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We have, hopefully, the last amendment to this.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, this is my last amendment.

I'm going to propose that at the end of the motion we add “and report this motion to the House.”

The reason I think this is important is that we can send a letter to PROC, but a report to the House provides an opportunity for the House to pronounce on wanting this study to take place. I think that may be important to ensure it happens. We don't want this issue buried. We want this study to happen, and a report to the House provides the opportunity for the House to express itself on the matter. That's why I think it's important. I hope that will be agreeable to members.

Thanks.