Government Operations Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2023

[Kristian Firth]

First, it's very discouraging when you're trying to work with a small Canadian company to try to get them contracts with the federal government to solve real problems a lot of Canadians are actually facing. You do that with good intentions. You work for two years on trying to get their foot in the door and get them the meetings they need, and, again, at that point they had to close the door.

The truth is that I feel like it has been a bit traumatic, understanding the fact that voice recordings, text messages.... Again, it was all good intentions, even trying to get them on their own vehicle to eliminate our company so there will be no third party, so there will be no ghost contracting, whatever the terminology was that was brought up. The truth is that I did everything I could to get them contracts, to get the word out there, get them to help Canadians and get them on their own supply arrangements so they could go direct, and then none of these accusations would ever happen again.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

You can understand that from my perspective I'm seeing a company, Botler AI, that's putting everything on the line: its reputation, its integrity. They've gone public with this. I'm trying to understand from your vantage point why they would do that.

[Kristian Firth]

I think there were good intentions when we first started the pilot to get the work done. That's why the first two deliverables were done on time and they were paid. I think there was the understanding that things were failing and that things weren't working. Those four deliverables.... Again, they were terminated December 23. In my experience, termination is usually for performance.

With the fact they went dark for nearly two months, it seemed like they were scrambling to get the last four deliverables drafted up for submission. I helped them get a line of credit, so whether they were over-leveraged and they needed the last four remaining.... I'm not sure what it was, but being in debt typically makes things a bit more real, and at that point you become desperate.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Botler AI also alleges that Cameron MacDonald, who was the director general at CBSA at the time, was providing real-time coaching by text message while you were pitching Botler AI to then president Ossowski and senior leadership at CBSA.

Did that happen?

[Kristian Firth]

There was communication between Mr. MacDonald, Botler and myself. Again, Mr. MacDonald identified that there was a real problem. I think he just wanted this young Canadian company to be successful and understood that there are certain ways. He was doing his best, in my understanding, to help out Botler. That's my interpretation.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Is that a conflict of interest, to have an official coaching you to basically say the right things to get the bid through, to get the deal? Is that—

[Kristian Firth]

I believe that the intentions were to help with the presentation but by no means.... At that point, the president still needs to like the software. There are more things to that. There still needs to be an understanding of software and making sure that it's a fit with the new organization.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Is that a regular thing? It it a regular thing for an inside official to be coaching a company on what to say, pitching their product to other senior officials? Is that normal?

[Kristian Firth]

I can't comment on what's normal. I'm not in everybody's meetings.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Did Mr. Cameron MacDonald tell you to inflate the CV that you submitted?

[Kristian Firth]

No, he did not.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Who told you to inflate the CV that you submitted, to change the numbers? Who asked you to do that? Did anyone ask you to do that?

[Kristian Firth]

No, nobody did that. Again, that's part of my process for when I'm doing résumé submission.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Okay, and I have one final question. I know you answered this before, but why did Botler AI need GC Strategies? Why couldn't it just contract its work directly with CBSA or Dalian or Coradix? Why did it need GC Strategies?

[Kristian Firth]

They were not a qualified vendor. That's why we aligned ourselves, originally. Any time they wanted to work with the federal government, they could work through us.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

How much time...? Is that it?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's it. Thank you, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

Before I ask to adjourn, I know Mr. Genuis had something, then Mr. Jowhari. Be quick, please, because we are short on time.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I know we're short on time today, but I think you would probably find agreement for the committee to bring Mr. Firth back for another two hours. Let's just skip a step and say we'll summon him back for two hours to continue this important line of questioning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Are date and time to be determined by the chair?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, that's determined by the chair. We trust you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I will arrange that with the clerk and Mr. Firth.

Mr. Jowhari, go ahead, please.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

On the same thing, we would like to request that Mr. Cameron MacDonald be called back to the committee for two hours, as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I think he is coming next week—on Tuesday, actually.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You can move that motion at the end of the meeting, when he's here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Firth, thanks for your time.

There were several requests for information from you. There was one on the versions of the résumés, within 48 hours. We're going to set it at noon on Monday, November 6. For anything else, unless otherwise stated, we have a committee requirement of three weeks, so there's that.

Mr. Sousa, did you have something, before we adjourn?