I just want to be unequivocal about this. I've never had a contractor, a vendor or anybody at my house or at my cottage. I have a little cabin in the woods. I go there sometimes—especially during the pandemic—to get away from things, as I was working extremely hard.
I've met Kristian Firth three times out of a workplace in my entire life. Two of those times were after the pandemic and after ArriveCAN started. Two of the three times were with Mr. Utano and my mobile development team. I was there for about 15 or 20 minutes. I have had lunch with Kristian Firth one time, after the pandemic, before I left the CBSA. I paid my own bill. Those are all the interactions I've had with Mr. Firth. I've had only a professional relationship with Mr. Firth.
I do have fairly informal relationships with people, as I've told this committee. People call me “Cam” all the time. They know they can reach me. I leave my calendar open. I answer my phone. I try to be as open and available as I can to employees, staff and peers.
I was asked to work with private sectors, so anything new or innovative, or anything that sounded interesting, I would obviously be interested in. Mr. Firth had partnered with several different companies in the private sector. He told this committee that he worked with 22 other government departments. He had some $40 million dollars in sales, and he had been fairly successful at doing it. People talk in town.
Mr. Utano can testify to the fact that we called a couple of different departments and did a reference check to see if the work was good—