That was my discussion. That was the day Minh Doan threatened me.
The discussion started off with Minh Doan telling me that within CBSA there was a lot of work going on to prepare for OGGO. This was almost a year ago. I believe Mr. Mendicino was not happy. Mr. Mendicino wasn't there when ArriveCAN kicked off and when all of this was going on, but there was a lot of news about ArriveCAN.
Minh was worried that either he or Jonathan Moor was going to get fired, so he was talking about somebody's head on a platter. He said that, because Jonathan Moor had made a whole bunch of mistakes from an accounting perspective about how much ArriveCAN cost, it could go his way, or it could go Mr. Doan's way, because Mr. Doan was the CIO at the time. Then he turned.... We were on the phone, but he stopped the conversation and said, “You know, Cam, if I have to, I'm going to tell the committee that it was you.” He offered me the opportunity to say it was Mr. Utano, or to tell Mr. Doan it was Utano and me, to which I said, “If you do that, I will have to respond,” and we ended the conversation.
That night is the night I wrote him the notes. I stayed up until about three o'clock in the morning trying to figure out how to find some way to meet in the middle. That's why the notes were written exactly that way—so Mr. Doan could come to this committee and present without having—