Thank you, Chair.
Ms. O'Gorman, I find your responses to the questions put to you by my colleague Ms. Kusie—as to why both Mr. MacDonald, who was director general of the CBSA, and Mr. Antonio Utano, who was the vice-president of the CBSA, were suspended without pay—to be lacking in clarity. Clearly you know a lot more, and we're going to ask questions about that because Canadians deserve a full, frank answer as to why these senior civil servants have been treated in this fashion.
These are extremely unusual circumstances. Bill Curry from The Globe and Mail was able to speak with the former clerk of the Privy Council Office, Mr. Michael Wernick, who said that “public finger-pointing by senior public servants is highly unusual” and that he could “not recall any other instance of such public disagreement.” Is it “an outlier”? Yes, and “suspensions without pay are also rare”.
“It is a very strong measure to suspend without pay while a process is under way and no conclusions have been reached. Usually, disciplinary measures follow an investigation being completed and suspension with pay is more common in the early stages,” he said.
“It is also a very strong measure to suspend or permanently revoke a security clearance. It is tantamount to removing someone from that job and any other job that requires that level of clearance. It is not a common occurrence.”
Your decisions at the CBSA, as directed and delivered to the other ministries these two individuals have worked for, have destroyed their lives, and Canadians deserve an answer. Parliamentarians deserve an answer as to why due process was not provided to them and why very draconian measures were taken against them, so I'm asking a number of questions. Whom did you speak with on suspending the two public servants on the $54-million ArriveCAN app?