Government Operations Committee on Oct. 28th, 2025

[Alison McEwen, Legal Counsel, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association]

I understand your question. You're saying you need a minimum service standard. The difficulty with finding that is that lots of CPAA offices are very remote, and each one is individual. We can have two offices that are 30 kilometres from each other, but if they're both fly-in, they might as well be 300 kilometres from each other, as that 30 kilometres of bush is not passable or only passable for certain months a year. Two offices that are 30 kilometres apart on a 400-level highway would be different.

I think part of CPAA's approach is that there isn't a number for the minimum service standard. We can't come in here and say that you need a post office every x kilometres. Each region will have to be looked at to figure out what's realistic, if that makes sense. It will vary from region to region .

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Yes, for sure. I think part of it goes to the population numbers as well. I think you've described very well what would probably fall more into a remote community situation.

I represent a large part of rural Saskatchewan. I have over 130 communities, which means I probably have close to over 100 post office buildings. In some of the larger urban centres, they might still be considered rural, even if they're not. Again, I'm just trying to get that sense from you as to what “rural” truly means, and if there is actually a population number that might be attached to the size of a community, or on how far it is from a large urban centre, things like that.

[Alison McEwen]

We've talked about that, too, internally. The difficulty is it could be the size of the office—our bigger offices are more likely to be urban. It could be the size of the community. There's a really interesting community in B.C. called Bella Coola. That's actually one of our bigger offices and a bigger centre. You can only access it by one highway, and it's very far from anything else. I think the idea we're pushing is that, of the 3,000 offices in CPAA, almost all of them are rural, and unfortunately we're going to have to look at them piece by piece. Bella Coola has what we call a 6B office, which is one of our biggest offices. You would think, oh it's big, it must be somewhere close to an urban centre, but it's not.

I'm genuinely not trying to be difficult; there's no easy answer. That's the point we're making. There is no easy answer that it's the bigger offices or the ones within 20 kilometres of each. Each grouping in each area really has to be looked at. Like your 130 communities, each will have a different story to tell.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

For sure.

In 2016, the Minister of Public Services and Procurement launched an independent review of Canada Post. That report definitely paints a picture that, I would say, there were some warning signs that were put up about the direction and what the future of Canada Post would look like, yet, from 2016 onwards, really nothing was done.

How concerning is it to you that, even in an independent report 10 years ago, there were already warnings from the current government and nothing was done? What pressure does that give to your members when the map and the warning signs were there and nothing was done? How damaging was that for your members?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, but there's no time left for an answer.

We'll go to Ms. Khalid.

Welcome back. You have six minutes, please.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for your time today.

A long time ago, Canada Post was privatized during the Mulroney days. It has now become an institution that deals with three main stakeholders, from my understanding. We have citizens who are looking for service. We have employees who are delivering that service and then we have the executives who are running the organization in somewhat of a business model that has not made any profits since 2017.

I think there are a number of different aspects that I'd like to explore a little bit in that framework, and I'll start with Ms. Simpson.

Ms. Simpson, in today's gig economy, how are employees of Canada Post being dealt with? What are the innovations that the organization is able to provide for what the gig economy is looking for right now?

[Jan Simpson]

Thank you.

Canada Post hasn't been privatized, and we'll make sure that we don't have a pathway to privatization during this committee meeting right here. We don't want a gig worker economy at Canada Post. We need to ensure that workers are lifted up and that the next generation of workers also has good sustainable jobs.

For us, Canada Post has an opportunity to be a role model for other companies and to ensure that good jobs stay within the community, good public service jobs as well, and to grow and sustain Canada Post to deliver beyond just letter mail but also do parcels and expand services with postal banking. We saw the gentleman before who was having Internet problems. Part of our campaign is around improving the Internet problems as well.

We talked about community hubs. I've had the privilege to go to Yellowknife, where I worked. It was across the street from where—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I'm sorry, my apologies. I want to talk specifically about the new generation of workers that Canada Post is hiring, the labour laws and the innovations around the workforce specifically. Can you please answer that?

[Jan Simpson]

I think Canada Post this round wants to go to weekend part-time workers, and we don't support that for us. They have the ability to do the weekend-delivery model with full-time employees. Bringing in new employees would be a cost burden to Canada Post and will give instability to new young workers when they come with only a one-day or two-day work week. They want the workers to stay the entire day while not guaranteeing them work; therefore, you have no ability to have a work/life balance. Also, a lot of folks have to have two and three gig jobs, and nobody should have to be doing that in Canada right now.

Canada Post has the ability to have good, unionized jobs for these workers. When I began at Canada Post, it was a way for me to raise a family and to pay my rent. I've been able to visit workers in Windsor, Ontario, and one gentleman was telling me that he's going to the food bank on a regular basis now. Also, some are living in their cars. One gentleman in the Atlantic region is living in a tent in the forest. These gig jobs are not what Canada Post should be replicating. We should be replicating good, full-time jobs.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Jones, do you have any comments on what Ms. Simpson has said?

[Dwayne Jones]

I don't directly on what Ms. Simpson has said, but I would add to it in regard to our members. For years, the offices have worked with Canada Post to try to tailor those offices for the members in those communities. We've had services available on Saturdays and, in some areas, that wasn't feasible. They would prefer a late evening, say on a Thursday evening, and that's how the consultation process took place to be able to shift that for the community's needs and what's required.

That's something that we would still promote to this day as being profitable for CPC because their tailoring is specific for that community.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Mr. Jones, between these three stakeholders—the citizens requesting delivery, the employees who work for Canada Post and then the executives who manage the entire organization—what do you think is the biggest challenge that the organization faces right now, knowing that it is not making a profit and delivery isn't that great either?

[Dwayne Jones]

I think one of the biggest things is the disconnect between the company and the members of the community. I still come back to the idea that allowing members in the community to help draft and shape the way forward is the most profitable way for CPC to move ahead. They could tailor services that they could expand in that area. For example, some of the financial services could be looked at or it could be adding broadband into a community that is suffering in that regard.

There are ways that CPC could leverage just the makeup of that community itself.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I appreciate that.

Ms. Simpson, do you have anything to add to what Mr. Jones has indicated?

[Jan Simpson]

With Canada Post trying to eliminate door-to-door delivery, it's going to actually make deliveries to the homes in the rural and remote areas slower... and even within the urban communities. We know that urban communities are the ones that help with the cost of paying for the rural deliveries as well.

For us, it's really important for Canada Post to have a full public mandate review and to have the citizens talk about what they need within each individual community. We heard in Quebec that each area is different. Across this entire country that we live in, every area is different.

We need to have full, public, transparent consultation with all the stakeholders that you just spoke about in your intervention.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I agree a hundred per cent.

It is interesting. As a government entity or arm's-length body, Canada Post operates as kind of a heritage piece. Government and organizations like Canada Post are not in the business of making profits. They are in the business of service delivery on behalf of Canadians. However, in this way, we are finding conflict between these three different stakeholders.

Mr. Jones, can you maybe help us understand what the number one thing is that you think our government can do to provide—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry. I have to interrupt. We're past our time, Ms. Khalid.

Madame Gaudreau, please go ahead.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

We have just heard from a representative of the UMQ. He spoke about the need for consultation. He also said that the government should avoid a one-size-fits-all approach throughout the country.

I've got a two-part question for you.

First of all, do you agree with these two observations, and if so, why?

[Dwayne Jones]

I was having a hard time with the translation coming through. Could you could repeat it, please?

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

According to the representative of the UMQ, it's important not to have one approach everywhere, and it's also important to have consultation.

I'd like to know your opinion about that.

[Dwayne Jones]

Something that we have stressed with Canada Post for years is that a lot of times, when they take a one-stop shop approach to things, it's usually based off more of an urban template, which doesn't correlate well with rural Canada and rural Canadians. That's where, to me, there needs to be some flexibility in that you may have the bare bones from that template, but you need to be able to tailor it specifically to the regions.

We know that in northern Quebec, there's individual uniqueness in those communities that comes to overcoming what kind of a strategy would be best put in place to keep those Canadians connected with the rest of Canada.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I agree completely, Mr. Jones.

Ms. Simpson, can you answer my last question on the consultation process and the need to avoid a one-size-fits-all approach across the country?

[Jan Simpson]

Thank you for your question.

I'll respond in English.

For us at CUPW, it's really important for Canada Post to do a full public mandate review because every area is unique and different. We have different demographics of age, as well as different people. For example, in a rural and remote area, Canada Post may be the only federal building in that community. You're able to make it into a community hub, which will help Canada Post expand services and bring in revenue as well.

Canada Post is not supposed to be making a profit. It is supposed to be sustainable and serve Canadians no matter where they are. By having this one-stop shop for a plan will not be good for any Canadians. We need to ensure that it is a full public mandate review that has everybody giving their input and has the lived reality of different locations, so that all Canadians are serviced properly by Canada Post, which is its mandate.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

My understanding is that you need to be consulted. The approach must be tailored to different realities. I'm thinking about the Basse‑Côte‑Nord and the Îles de la Madeleine. Some regions have mail delivery twice a week. However, this is not sufficient, for example, if someone is expecting a medical device that they need for a stoma. The situation becomes urgent.

What must be understood and what I wasn't aware of, is that Canada Post is the only organization that provides mail service. I expect to see the report reflect the fact there can be one approach for urban areas and for regions that are not too far-flung, but the approach must reflect each region's reality.

Let's turn to essential services and costs. At the last meeting, I told the minister about the German model.

However, I'm a bit concerned about the current relationship with Purolator.

Do you think the German model is an inspiring model, or on the contrary, do you think it raises concerns?

We would be heading towards privatized services and inclusive services from coast to coast to coast would no longer be offered.

What do you think about that?

[Jan Simpson]

For us, the German model would not work here in Canada. We're a bigger demographic and we have rural and remote areas that we have to also cater to that are different from what Germany has.

In regard to the Purolator problem we have, we see two top Canada Post executives sitting on the Purolator board of directors. That, to us, is a conflict of interest, because we're watching, during these negotiations, that work is being moved from Canada Post to Purolator and the profits that Purolator is making are actually very similar to what Canada Post is losing—