Evidence of meeting #14 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bédard.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Blanchard  Associate Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat
Franco  Executive Director, Investment Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
McClymont  Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel and Public Service Renewal, Privy Council Office
Bédard  Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, House of Commons

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Good afternoon, everyone. We are getting going. I apologize. We're running late, which is not like us.

Welcome to meeting number 14 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates. We're here undertaking a study of the creation and planning of the Defence Investment Agency.

We're going to start with Ms. Blanchard for a five-minute opening statement. There's no opening statement from PCO, so we'll go right to questions after that.

Quickly, colleagues, you will receive in your P9 a couple of letters that our clerk is forwarding on. We will address it in the second hour of the committee. We'll just have a brief overview so you're partially briefed on it, and then we'll address it. It is regarding the contract request.

We do have bells at 5:15, just before we end. As we get closer, we can decide if we have UC to continue for the last 15 minutes or if we'll just rise when the bells go. I'm hoping it'll just be when the bells go.

We'll turn the floor over to Ms. Blanchard. Welcome to OGGO.

The floor is yours for five minutes, please.

Dominique Blanchard Associate Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, members of the committee, for inviting me here today. I'm here with Mr. Emilio Franco, the executive director at the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat.

I'd like to provide an overview of Treasury Board's role with respect to the Defence Investment Agency, which is a new special operating agency within Public Services and Procurement Canada.

First, allow me to provide a brief explanation of the role of special operating agencies, or SOAs. These agencies are not a new concept. They include well-established organizations, such as the translation bureau and the Canadian intellectual property office. Today, more than a dozen special operating agencies are in place within the government.

Special operating agencies, or SOAs, are not legally separate entities but are established as distinct units within an existing federal department. Importantly, they are subject to the same rules and requirements that apply across the federal government. Sometimes, SOAs will be granted particular authorities, policy exemptions or delegations that allow them to operate with greater flexibility in order to more efficiently execute on their mandates. For example, the Canadian Coast Guard has the authority to enter into sole-sourced contracts above normal limits to deal with emergency situations.

The Defence Investment Agency is one of the government's newest SOAs. As announced by the Prime Minister in early October, its mandate is to consolidate and accelerate defence procurement processes while also tying procurement to domestic industrial benefits. The establishment of the DIA and the authorities granted to it build on previous efforts to streamline Treasury Board's involvement in defence procurement while focusing on the areas of highest risk and maintaining a strong oversight role.

Since 2018, defence procurements have been subject to a risk-based approach, permitting low-risk and, more recently, medium-risk defence procurements to proceed without seeking Treasury Board approval. Underpinning this approach is a rigorous and mature governance in which the Treasury Board Secretariat is involved, as well as strong due diligence. An evaluation undertaken in 2024 of the risk-based approach found that this approach effectively decreased procurement timelines without compromising the integrity of the process.

The authorities granted to the Defence Investment Agency represent a further iteration of this approach. For high-risk defence procurements of any value, Treasury Board approval of a procurement and negotiating strategy will be sought in advance of proceeding with solicitation activities or negotiations and, barring deviations from the approved approach, the agency will have the authority to enter into contracts without returning to the board.

I should emphasize that this exceptional authority is specific to contracting. Other types of authorities, like project authorities or access to funds, will still require Treasury Board approval. To support transparency, this enhanced authority is publicly available on our website in the directive on the management of procurement, as are all other exceptional limits.

Mr. Chair, we've provided a copy of this enhanced procurement authority to committee members to assist with your study.

On the topic of transparency, members will be interested to know that the Defence Investment Agency, like all departments and SOAs, is required to report publicly on whether its programs are achieving the intended results. This includes regular reporting, for example, through PSPC's departmental plan and departmental results report. Further, its contracts will be subject to proactive disclosure, and its spending will be captured in the public accounts, so anyone interested can follow the plans, procurements and spending of the agency.

Treasury Board and its secretariat will continue to play their roles in ensuring adequate oversight at the appropriate stage of the procurement process while supporting the Defence Investment Agency in its efforts to streamline defence procurement.

We would be happy to take your questions.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you very much.

We'll start with Mr. Patzer for six minutes, please.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, everyone, for coming today. I really appreciate it.

Ms. Blanchard, I'm wondering if you could quickly tell us what are the authorities given to the Defence Investment Agency that you just alluded to. Could you quickly summarize that?

3:40 p.m.

Associate Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat

Dominique Blanchard

Sure. They are specific to contracting.

I guess I should say, first and foremost, that the agency will have all the authorities that are already in existence within PSPC, but a specific authority related to contracting and exceptional contracting limits.

As I mentioned, low- and medium-risk procurements, subject to the existing governance that is in place around this risk-based approach, can proceed without coming to the Treasury Board. The Treasury Board Secretariat is involved in the governance.

High-risk procurements would require Treasury Board approval of a procurement approach and strategy prior to engaging in the procurement process. Assuming there are no deviations from that approach, they could proceed with the procurement process and the negotiations and ultimately to signing the contract without coming back to the Treasury Board for that particular authority.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Can I jump in right there? Could you quickly differentiate between a medium risk and a high risk?

3:40 p.m.

Associate Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat

Dominique Blanchard

Sure. There is an evaluation of risk process that is built into this risk-based approach. I might turn to my colleague Emilio to define that.

It takes into account things like financial risk, in terms of whether it's a developmental project or something that is being purchased outright, and legal risk, in terms of the approach of acquisition that is being proposed.

Maybe I can turn to Emilio to elaborate on that.

Emilio Franco Executive Director, Investment Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Absolutely.

The risk-based approach follows an established methodology by Public Services and Procurement Canada. A number of questions go into that risk assessment. As Dominique mentioned, it looks at aspects like legal and financial contract risk, political risk and communications risk, as well as complexity. Looking into buying ammunition versus buying submarines has different complexities and different risk levels.

Based on that assessment, and based on the responses to those questions, there is a risk profile that is given to the procurement. That determines what authorities are required to proceed.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

On the $100-million threshold for it to go through DIA, who came up with the $100-million threshold?

3:40 p.m.

Associate Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat

Dominique Blanchard

That was part of the authority that was requested.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

It was requested by whom?

3:45 p.m.

Associate Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat

Dominique Blanchard

That was part of the secretary of state's request.

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The interpreter has told us that the witness's mike is not properly synchronized, and so I missed the last part.

3:45 p.m.

Associate Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat

Dominique Blanchard

Sorry about that.

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

It's not your fault.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

How far back did you miss?

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

About 20 seconds.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Is it fine now?

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Yes.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Okay. Thanks.

Go ahead, Mr. Patzer.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Okay. Thanks.

Can you say that last bit again? Who requested the $100-million threshold?

3:45 p.m.

Associate Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat

Dominique Blanchard

It was part of the secretary of state's request.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Thank you.

Is there any way that a high-risk item could fall into that $100-million subcategory, or would it be only low- and medium-risk items?

3:45 p.m.

Associate Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat

Dominique Blanchard

It's a really good question, because we often grapple with whether or not dollar thresholds are a more appropriate measure. Where we've landed is that the dollar value doesn't always equate appropriately to level of risk. I think it would be rare to have a high-risk procurement that falls below $100 million, but I wouldn't state that as a matter of definitive fact.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Was it you guys who approved the framework agreement and the business plan for the DIA?