Evidence of meeting #17 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
If you wish, I can go through the reasons why we think it's important to protect some commercially confidential—
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
I'm going to quickly stop you there, because I think you've already done that with previous questions, and in your opening remarks, you already made reference to some of that.
What I am getting at is that there are nine parliamentarians around this table. We agreed to a motion that called for unredacted documents. Ms. Gaudreau did a good job of saying that in previous parliaments, there have been fully unredacted contracts put forward to this committee and possibly other committees, and it was done so in a manner they could be viewed fully unredacted.
How come we did not receive fully unredacted documents much like other committees have before?
November 25th, 2025 / 11:25 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
My answer is that, first of all, we have a contractual obligation. The contract clearly assigns what we can release and cannot release, and it has to be agreed to with Stellantis. That was the first reason.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
Okay.
Which line in the contract stipulates that you have to have redacted contracts sent to parliamentarians?
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
There's nowhere in here that says you have the right to overstep Parliament. I didn't see that written in here, so why do you think you have the power to disobey the will of Parliament?
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
It's clause 16.1.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to disobey the will of Parliament. What I'm trying to do is find a balanced way to make sure that you can do the scrutiny you wish to do and protect what is commercially confidential. I proposed what was done in previous Parliaments, at both the INDU committee and the ENVI committee, where we shared, with closed doors, very slightly redacted documents with those committees.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
How many people within your department have seen this? How many people in total have seen this contract fully unredacted?
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
I'll turn to my colleagues, who may have a better estimate. It's a handful. I'm not sure if Stephanie or Denis would have a better number than that.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation Canada, Department of Industry
In addition to those of us at the table, we would have a team of probably two or three people, or maybe a couple more, because there is the financial side. It would be a team of maybe—
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
I'm sorry, how many is that? I didn't quite hear you. You were turned towards him.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation Canada, Department of Industry
I'm guessing on the size here, but I would say that it's a team of probably between four and six people, in addition to those of us at the table.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
That's in addition to you. It's about eight to 10 people. Okay.
Mr. Bédard, I have a quick question for you and Ms. Gauthier.
Does clause 16.1 supersede Parliament, or does Parliament supersede clause 16.1?
Michel Bédard Interim Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel
Clause 16 in the contract is a typical confidentiality clause. Those clauses do not override the power of certain bodies, including the courts and Parliament, to compel the production of documents.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
Thank you.
Mr. Chair, how much time do I have?
Conservative
Conservative
Liberal
Karim Bardeesy Liberal Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Good morning everyone.
I'm hoping to better understand the process of negotiating contract terms.
What kind of consultation occurs within the department?
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
I will turn this over to the team that handles negotiations.
What I can say is that we exercise due diligence. We seek to understand the markets as well as the technical and financial aspects.
I will let the team members fill you in on the details, but ultimately, we seek to ensure that the money is well invested. We believe that the project will go ahead and that the risks are as minimal as possible, but we recognize that there is a certain level of risk in any investment.
I will let Ms. Tanton or Mr. Martel give you a little more detail.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation Canada, Department of Industry
I'll start, and then I'll turn to Denis.
In addition to the assessments we spoke about before—Denis can talk more about who's involved in the determination of a term sheet—I think it's also important to indicate that a project of this size would also have required both cabinet and Treasury Board approval before we moved towards execution. The general terms of what we would be negotiating from the benefit agreement as well as from the funding levels would also have been approved at those levels before we moved ahead.
Denis.
Director General, Innovation Canada, Department of Industry
The team's work is very focused on understanding the project and, as the deputy minister mentioned, understanding the risks.
When it comes to a contract like this, we also need to understand what kind of machinery or equipment will be needed so that we can make payments for equipment and activities that have taken place. We also need to do a good job of following up. So there are discussions in that regard.
Liberal
Karim Bardeesy Liberal Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON
The deputy minister stated that approximately 150 agreements had been negotiated under the strategic innovation fund program. Each project has its own contract, such as the one currently before us, and each contract is different.
Is that correct?
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Yes, that's right. Each project has its own individual contract. Some companies may have several projects, but each project has a different contract.
For each project, we ensure that the benefits will accrue to Canadians, in addition to assessing the risks. There are always provisions to ensure that a certain number of jobs are created and that certain investments are made in Canada.
Liberal
Karim Bardeesy Liberal Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON
I have a few more detailed questions.
Would each SIF agreement or special contribution agreement have a confidentiality clause like clause 16?
