Government Operations Committee on Feb. 26th, 2026

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Nicol.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

We'll do a three-minute round and then finish up with one minute for Madame Gaudreau.

Mrs. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Nicol, for joining us today.

I want to express my gratitude to the Conservative government that, back in 2006, thought it was very necessary to create the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer. I recognize that there were reforms in 2017 that strengthened the office.

I want to thank Mr. Jacques for calling for a review of his own office in order to get a good sense of where, perhaps, improvements need to be made.

I want to turn to the recommendations you provided that require legislators to take a look. Your targeted recommendations are in regard to safeguarding the independence of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, as well as sustaining performance. We're all pretty proud of the fact that our parliamentary budget office is ranked number one in the world when it comes to being an international leader in fiscal oversight.

I want to ask about leadership appointments. Could you elaborate on what we could do here in Canada to ensure that we set clear arrangements for timely appointments, remove reappointment options and introduce structured interim arrangements with cross-party backing?

[Scherie Nicol]

Indeed, I think that in order to strengthen the leadership appointment process, it is likely that there would need to be legislative amendments. The challenges we're talking about have really arisen because we've seen persistent delays in permanent leadership appointments in recent history. This presents risks for the PBO's independence and stability.

We would like to see changes to the legislation that, for example, stipulate that the appointment must be made within a certain period in advance of the outgoing Parliamentary Budget Officer. For example, for Portugal's Public Finance Council, it's in legislation that the appointment of their leadership must take place up to 60 days before the end of the current term.

There is a precedent for this timeliness to be put in legislation. Indeed, within the Canadian government's own guidance on Governor in Council appointments, it says that only in exceptional circumstances should there be interim appointments. Have something within the legislation that sets out that it should be timely, and then also stipulate some criteria for any interim arrangements. What sort of qualifications would you look for anyone to have if they are going to fulfill that interim role?

Something that could be quite interesting for you to consider would be—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I apologize. I have to interrupt. We're past our time. Can I get you to wrap up the response?

We'll then go over to Ms. Rochefort.

Thanks, Ms. Nicol.

[Scherie Nicol]

No worries.

It could be interesting to look at the Ontario office, where they have someone within the office who steps up as the parliamentary budget officer if there is no appointment in time. That's an interesting model that you can look at, at the national level in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Ms. Rochefort.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you so much.

Your review noted that the PBO's impact is closely tied to media engagement, and it recommended a more formal communications strategy. I would welcome your views on when visibility becomes a risk to the perceived neutrality of the PBO. Our PBO mentioned that they've released a communications framework. I was wondering if you had seen it or reviewed it, and if you felt that it addressed this particular issue of visibility versus neutrality. That's my first question.

Here is my second question. I'm not sure, Mr. Jacques, how many times you've come before our committee, but I counted 14. I don't know if that's correct. I would welcome our guest's view on whether she views that as a concern vis-à-vis the recommendation in the report related to independence. Is there any risk of that contravening the issue of independence?

I turn that back to you. Thank you.

[Scherie Nicol]

In terms of visibility and neutrality, it is true that when you are very visible as an institution, you are increasingly in the political crossfire. This makes it increasingly difficult to be seen as neutral, particularly if you have a government that is in power for a number of years and you're not able to show that you're applying the same scrutiny, regardless of the party that is in power.

We see that when these institutions are very visible, it's important that they are strong institutions and that their independence is highly guarded. That means having a robust and strong legislative framework. That's one of the reasons why we feel it's so important that these chinks in the armour of the parliamentary budget office in Canada are addressed. The ones we have pointed out in our review are particularly important to address, given that the parliamentary budget office in Canada is so exposed in the media.

Nobody we spoke to ever doubted the neutrality of the office and the fact that the office is non-partisan. That's something that came across very clearly in the review. That shows us that they've been able to walk that line between visibility and neutrality very well in recent years.

I've forgotten what your second question was.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

It was concerning the 14 appearances before this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Give a brief response, if you can.

[Scherie Nicol]

It's fantastic that the Parliamentary Budget Officer is engaging so well with parliamentary committees. This enables really informing the debates and for parliamentarians to meet in a way that is only helpful for Canada writ large.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Next is Madame Gaudreau for one minute.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Ms. Nicol, I feel quite fortunate and I want to thank you for joining us. You have provided valuable information.

I would now like to give my remaining seconds to Mr. Jacques, so he can continue the discussion we had in the last 30 minutes.

[Jason Jacques]

I think that, here in Canada, we are fortunate to have parliamentarians who are very interested in facts and figures. I think Canadians are well served by you, the members of Parliament. Debates and policies are always linked to facts and figures. This makes me very confident about Canada's future. I am also proud to be Canadian.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Nicol, we will excuse you. Thank you for joining us today. It's greatly appreciated. Thank you for your report and the affirmation of the great work our PBO does. It's greatly appreciated.

Mr. Jacques, thanks again for being with us. I think this is your 30th appearance this week with us, and your final one as interim PBO. We truly appreciate all of the work that you've done for Parliament, especially for this committee. You truly are a great friend of this committee. We sincerely appreciate it. We look forward to seeing you again in whatever capacity follows you next.

Colleagues, don't go. We need to approve two budgets, please.

There's the one for our briefing with our interim PBO on the supplementaries today, which was for $500. Is that approved?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

The other one is for supplementary estimates (C), vote 5c for Canada Post last week. Is that approved?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's wonderful.

Mr. Jacques, before you go, I just want to follow up on vote 50. My favourite quote is from King Edward I, when he called the model Parliament and said, “what touches all should be approved by all”. It's not “what touches all will be looked at later in the public accounts”, so I think vote 50 should be approved with full information provided to parliamentarians first, not “give us $1 billion and we'll get back to you”. I wanted to put that out there toward you and everyone else watching online.

Again, you have my sincere appreciation for everything you've done. I greatly appreciate it.

We are adjourned.