Government Operations Committee on Sept. 23rd, 2025

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We'll go to Ms. Gaudreau, and then we'll finish with Ms. Jansen and Mr. Sousa.

Go ahead, please.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Chair, since I don't have much time, I will summarize.

We were to study three reports: the report on the acquisition of F‑35 fighter jets, the report on vacant federal office space that needs to be used urgently, and the report on GC Strategies contracts. I will summarize what I have understood, and you can add recommendations in a few seconds.

First, with regard to the subcontracting of GC Strategies contracts, it is not only a matter of accountability and not paying for a service before it is delivered, but security clearances must also be considered. I have heard that it is important to verify the security clearance of subcontractors. When it comes to accountability, it's about providing clarity and evidence so that you can do your job well.

You also mentioned that there are rules. You asked whether, if we forget what has happened in recent years and focus on the present, we could explore, streamline and formulate the rules in the simplest way possible so that all public servants can comply with them.

You also talked about risk assessment. That leads me to say that when we advertise, we need to show what we are looking for through an implementation plan and not be reactive by saying that we did not anticipate certain things. That's basically what I understood, because we could be here for hours.

Are there other aspects we should be vigilant about and pay attention to?

[Karen Hogan]

This is a very broad question. I could give you a list of items, but I'm going to focus on the three reports before us. They show that better cost planning is needed; this issue is often raised in our reports, as is the fact that certain things are missing. So, at the start of a project, it's important to take the time and make the effort to get a good estimate of the costs.

With regard to your comment on good risk management, costs must be closely monitored. When contracts are in a foreign currency, significant currency fluctuations will certainly affect the budget. More rigorous cost monitoring is essential in any project that the government undertakes.

We must also carry out a dynamic analysis of situations. Situations change. When a decision is made, the world continues to turn and change. I think it is also essential to have the flexibility to adjust. This will become apparent during annual monitoring. Vigilance is essential when monitoring a project.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate your giving me a bit more time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much. I never wish to cut off the AG.

We'll go to Ms. Jansen, please.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I wanted to go back to affordable housing, if that's all right.

To me, it's clear that it's vulnerable families who are being left out of the affordable housing projects, but according to your report, if I understand it correctly, the only things we're counting are the Liberal promises, as opposed to actual houses being built.

Is that correct?

[Karen Hogan]

How I would summarize it is that Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation is going in the right direction. They've got commitments. They're falling short where it matters most, which would be affordability and move-in readiness, but they're going in the right direction. Securing commitments is the right step forward.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I understood from the report that the federal lands initiative doesn't actually report how many homes are built and ready. It's only reporting things that have been promised or committed to, so Canadians have no clear way of knowing what they're really getting for their tax dollars.

Would you agree?

[Karen Hogan]

That's why we noted that their reporting lacked clarity. We felt it needed to include other elements. We gave some examples that could be used.

A commitment is just that. Being move-in ready and understanding when construction has had delays is important. That's why we think that more needs to be added to the public reporting.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Is there any transparent way for the public to see how many of these units in these projects are actually being rented out at that so-called affordable rate? Is there a system in place to track that?

[Karen Hogan]

I believe the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation does some reporting. It was, if I'm not mistaken, a little behind.

We did put some information in our report to give you a point-in-time estimate and then made recommendations for CMHC to continue with that accurate reporting. Really, it's up to them to ask what their plans are and when they plan on making that information public.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

So there's no real way for a Canadian to see whether there's something available in an affordable housing unit. There's no way for them to find out where, how many and what's available.

[Karen Hogan]

I'm not sure I know where to send someone, but I would tell you that what you're looking for will also depend on the definition of affordability. One individual might think something is affordable, while another might not.

I imagine there are municipal resources and provincial resources. I don't think the federal lands initiative will provide all of the information that an individual will need to help find affordable housing in their community.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Taxpayers are footing the bill. They deserve to know if these dollars are actually creating those affordable homes or if they are just glossy announcements.

Right now, is there a way for them to go somewhere to see, in their own town or in their own city, which of these units are there and available at the affordable rate?

[Karen Hogan]

If you're talking about the federal lands initiative, it has public reporting. As I said, that would not be the only place I would look if I were in search of affordable housing.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I'm concerned about even the broader risk. Without good transparency in place, isn't there a real risk that the same failures we're seeing in the federal lands initiative are just going to be repeated, only at a much bigger and more expensive scale, in the Build Canada Homes plan?

[Karen Hogan]

I can't really comment on a project I haven't audited.

Clearly, if the measure of affordability does not have some link to household income, I will raise the same concern that I have raised twice already. I do believe that affordability should be linked to household income, as the national housing strategy calls for and as Statistics Canada uses as a benchmark for affordability in our country.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I have one more question.

You mentioned that you didn't want to put any more rules in place. What about the idea of a rule saying that you must be able to easily access information as to what affordable housing is available in your own town?

[Karen Hogan]

You're asking me to comment on a policy decision. I'll leave it up to all of you to decide what the best rules are for the federal public service to follow.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's wonderful.

Mr. Sousa, go ahead, please.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you again. I guess we'll wrap up.

There's a line of questioning that reinforces the need for the government to show its response to you in regard to the F-35s and in regard to what we're going to take next. A lot of the questions I'm hearing are for government. I think it's appropriate for us to get that review done so that we can reaffirm your recommendations. I appreciate your putting those forward.

My next item is the professional services contract. You made note that recommendations were made and rules exist and that the government has taken the necessary precautions to ensure that those rules are noted. They just need to be followed. They need to ensure that our public service follows those rules to align with some of the recommendations made by you and others. I'm just recapping that part.

Here's my question now.

In regard to the modernization of the housing—your third report—you notes that there was resistance from federal tenants in the reallocation of funding. I have a few questions with respect to this.

Could anything have been done to prevent this? What can be done to mitigate this in the future, in regard to the relationship with the tenants?

[Karen Hogan]

I'll comment on your comment and then I'll actually get to your question.

I think it isn't just about following the rules. I do believe that public servants need to understand why the rules are in place. That might help with the application of them. I think that's essential. Adding more rules is what's been happening right now. I would encourage the government to take a step back and streamline in order to speed things up.

Now I have to remember the other question.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

It had to do with tenants.

[Karen Hogan]

Oh, yes—the tenants. Thank you. I was so excited about procurement rules.