Government Operations Committee on April 21st, 2026

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Would you be able to return files? For example, on Veterans Affairs, would you say, “Well, that's really not our responsibility.” Has that ever occurred? What is the reaction when that occurs?

[Leslie Weir]

It's generally not the model we have.

I will say that the model they have in Australia is that their National Archives does not respond to access to information requests. They return the records to the departments in question, which have to respond, but that's not the model we have in Canada.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I have a very quick question. I think my time is coming to an end.

On the documentary heritage communities program, is there some overlap with other programs within Heritage Canada where some of that work might be picked up?

[Leslie Weir]

That's a good question. There may well be, and I'm sure our team is looking at opportunities to refer people to programs that might be able to pick up some of what we do.

We have worked very closely with minority language groups in Canada and, of course, with first nations, Inuit and Métis nations, as well as with people who are in remote and rural communities, to try to ensure that they have the capability, the expertise, to preserve and make accessible their records. It has been a very successful program, and I know the communities are concerned with the requirement for us to cut this program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you for being with us today.

Before I let you go, I have a couple of quick questions.

I want to follow up on what you just mentioned. I was going through your grants and contributions. There's a fair amount of smaller totals going, as you were mentioning, to preserve language and culture, which is wonderful, but is this reimbursed by transfers from Indigenous Services to your department? Or should it be?

[Leslie Weir]

We did have a—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Is there anything to help out? Is this something they should be covering the cost of?

[Leslie Weir]

We had a program for digitizing archives in indigenous communities. We had funding support for it. The funding has sunsetted, so the program has been retired.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Should this be handled by that department, instead of your department?

As well, there was a substantial amount for archiving CNE materials. I'm thinking about whether this is something, in this environment, that would be better spent in your department, rather than on helping the CNE.

[Leslie Weir]

Yes. I mean, we digitize the collections we hold, but this was a specific program to support communities digitizing their own records, which they would retain.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Okay. I'm not criticizing. I'm just wondering if, in this environment—in which you're looking at layoffs affecting ATIPs—perhaps those cities or departments should help fund them for you.

Can I clarify your answer to Mrs. Jansen about outside contracting for ATIP help? You said no. Was that no to the backlog, or do you not do that as a practice, period, in your department?

[Leslie Weir]

What we've found is that we do quite extensive—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I understand that, but is it—

[Leslie Weir]

We don't.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You don't, at all.

[Jennifer Schofield]

We haven't in the last few years, at least. I don't know about the years before that.

[Leslie Weir]

Since I've been at Library and Archives of Canada, we have not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I was just trying to clarify that.

Thank you for being with us today. We appreciate your responses.

We are going to suspend for a few minutes to bring in our next set of witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Good afternoon. We are back. I appreciate everyone's patience.

We have an opening statement from Mr. Groen.

The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Cliff Groen, Associate Deputy Minister and Chief Operating Officer for Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It's a pleasure to be here today. It's nice to see many of you again for a second or third time.

My name is Cliff Groen. I'm the associate deputy minister of Employment and Social Development Canada, as well as the chief operating officer for Service Canada.

On behalf of ESDC, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before this committee today.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that the land on which we are gathered today is the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

I'm accompanied today by Danielle Lawlor, who is beside me. She's the director general of the financial management advisory services directorate within ESDC.

Our department strengthens Canada’s economic and social security and gives all Canadians a fair chance to succeed at every stage of their lives.

This means ESDC invests in programs like Canada-wide early learning and child care system and the national school food program.

ESDC also helps Canadians connect to good jobs and build the skills needed in a rapidly changing labour market. This includes supporting youth as they start their careers, advancing skilled trades and expanding opportunities for under-represented groups.

Our goal is to ensure Canadians are ready to seize the opportunities of the future.

And we continue to advance safe and fair workplaces by modernizing labour protections and fostering co-operative labour relations.

ESDC’s ongoing work also strengthens income security for aging Canadians, providing them with greater stability and peace of mind.

Furthermore, through Service Canada, we deliver programs and services directly to Canadians. This ensures they receive timely and accessible support whenever and wherever they need it.

Budget 2025 sets out a new direction for the public service by advancing the comprehensive expenditure review, or CER. Budget 2025 also reinforced the central role of the ESDC in supporting workers and families through economic disruptions and ongoing affordability challenges. With that direction in mind, our department will continue delivering high-quality services, including digital services and AI capabilities as priorities, and creating a more seamless Service Canada experience.

At the same time, we are committed to meeting the CER goals, which include reducing ESDC's funding by $780.5 million by 2028-29. Meeting this commitment does require workforce adjustments. ESDC is planning to reduce its workforce by 5,313 positions, plus 98 executive positions. It is important to note, however, that this includes 3,391 positions that were already reduced last fiscal year. The process related to the workforce adjustments is ongoing.

As part of these measures, 3,028 indeterminate employees received affected letters this past January, which is expected to result in the elimination of 931 positions, in addition to 39 executive positions. The remaining reductions will be achieved either through attrition or through the natural end of term positions. We expect final decisions to be made no later than this summer.

Regarding the future direction of ESDC, implementing these savings provides us with an opportunity to continue delivering high-quality services for Canadians while enhancing efficiency and sharpening our focus on the government's core priorities, such as spending less on operations to strengthen the economy and bringing down costs for Canadians.

ESDC is looking inward to ensure that organizational structures and resources are aligned with the program volumes and needs. This includes consolidating management and administrative support functions, reducing our reliance on external consultants, and limiting travel and conference attendance.

ESDC will also streamline program delivery through changes to the departmental grants and contributions programs, such as by merging Canada service corps and supports for student learning to lower administrative costs.

This will help us continue prioritizing spending on services to Canadians.

We look forward to working with this committee to advance our ambitious plans to deliver for Canadians and to strengthen our country's future.

I look forward to your questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

We'll start with Mrs. Block for six minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Groen and Ms. Lawlor, for being here today. I look forward to the testimony that you are going to provide.

Your department has identified 98 executive-level positions to be eliminated under this review, notwithstanding what was already identified last year, with the number of positions being cut. Can you tell us when those 98 positions will be officially eliminated?

[Cliff Groen]

Notices have been provided to 46 executives who are being directly affected. Essentially, they've been advised that their positions are at risk. Some additional executive reductions have been implemented already, such as through attrition and not backfilling someone who has left the public service. The full reductions of the 98 positions will be completed by 2028-29.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

You have sent out only 46 letters to those potentially affected. How many do you need to send out before all 98 executive positions will be removed?

[Cliff Groen]

I made one small error. It's 47 notices, not 46. I'll correct that for the record.

We anticipate that the 47 notices are all that we will have to send out. The other reductions will be achieved or have been achieved already through attrition. That naturally occurs when people either choose to retire or move on to other roles, and we will not backfill those.