Government Operations Committee on May 26th, 2026

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Okay.

I have 20 seconds left.

In France and Germany, research, SMEs, large businesses and public procurement are part of a continuum. I think about that a lot.

Is it or is it not our wish, in Canada, to have this economic vision?

[Emilio Franco]

The government's strategy is to support the Canadian economy—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That's right.

[Emilio Franco]

Yes, that's exactly right.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

We'll go to Ms. Block, please.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome.

When Mr. Matthews last appeared here, which was on May 7, I asked him about the buy Canadian policy's being applied to grants and contributions programs. We've already talked a bit about that and whether or not all departments would be expected to implement it. He said, “All departments are expected to look...to see what might be possible.”

However, I would note that, in an announcement that was made by the Prime Minister on September 5, he said that the policy would expand to grants and contributions. Then again, in the government spring economic update, it states, “It extends across the federal government and across all funding streams, including grants and contributions”. Which is it? Does it apply when possible? Does it apply to some and not others? Will it apply to all grants and contributions?

[Martin Krumins]

The policy applies to all grants and contributions, and we required ministers to assess all their programs for eligibility against this new policy. That phase has been completed, and ministers have completed and looked at how best they could incorporate those requirements into their existing programs.

As noted before, there are some programs that would not be applicable. For example, if a grant and contribution provides a benefit directly to an individual, it would obviously not be in the spirit of buy Canada. Also, there are some international payments that we make for treaty obligations. Those would also be excluded. Those would be considered things that are not applicable.

We've also asked departments to assess their programs, and they've identified areas that are excluded from the buy Canada provisions. These would be programs in which the agreements are already fully subscribed and there are no new funding opportunities or in which the funding is sunsetting and there was money in previous years but not going forward, although they're on the books.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you.

[Martin Krumins]

That assessment has been completed.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Is it possible to integrate the policy into grants at all, or is it just contributions—knowing the difference between the two?

[Martin Krumins]

Grants are certainly an item that can be considered to have buy Canada as part of their design. That would be through their upfront eligibility. In order to be eligible for a specific grant, a department could choose to write in eligibility requirements that align with the buy Canada definitions.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Given that a grant is not subject to being accounted for by a recipient or normally subject to an audit by the department, what's the plan to audit or monitor compliance of grants if, according to the Treasury Board's policy on transfer payments, grants cannot be audited?

[Martin Krumins]

Grants will be part of our reporting through the risk and compliance process.

Michelle, did you want to add a little bit more?

[Michelle Kealey]

Based on the policy, a department can take a decision based on risk to include additional provisions for results reporting. In that instance, a department, given the interest of buy Canadian, may indicate reporting requirements.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Have you set a timeline for departments to advise the Treasury Board or PSPC of when they can or can't implement this policy into their grants and contributions program?

[Martin Krumins]

We required those assessments to be provided to the Treasury Board Secretariat by February 16. All departments have submitted those assessments to us. We essentially now know which programs are intending to move forward with changes to their programs to incorporate that.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I thank you for the explanation you've provided to me on the differences between what has been stated by Mr. Matthews and the pretty definitive expectation that's been laid out by the Prime Minister's Office and in the official government communication document in the SEU.

It would appear that they're claiming something that isn't true by saying that this will be extended to all grants, contributions and funding streams. I want to note that there's inconsistency there.

My final question would be this: Can you tell me more about the ministerial exceptions being provided under this policy? I think Ms. Kealey had referenced the exceptions that ministers would have.

[Michelle Kealey]

As per the buy—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I have to interrupt.

Give a very quick answer, or get back to us in writing.

[Michelle Kealey]

We can do that as a follow-up. That's no problem.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Yes, get back to us in writing, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Mr. Danko, go ahead, please.

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I think Canadians are very supportive of the buy Canadian policy in this moment for various obvious reasons. Canadians are expecting the federal government to support Canadian business and Canadian workers, first and foremost.

I'm very happy that our government is taking this leadership role at the federal level to implement this policy and is expecting that provincial governments, municipalities and other partners will follow suit. We're really setting the expectation nationally for what buy Canadian means.

My understanding is that, from the federal perspective, there are two ways this policy applies. The first is through direct federal procurement. We heard about that earlier from the Department of Public Works and Government Services. It's also through federal funding—when we're funding projects through grants, contributions, loans and other funding agreements.

Going back to first principles, what are those funding mechanisms? Who receives that funding? How are those agreements arranged?

Give a broader definition of grants, contributions and loans. What is that category?

[Martin Krumins]

I'll turn to Michelle to answer that question.