Government Operations Committee on Sept. 24th, 2026

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Robert Small]

You can't get more brief than that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's perfect. Thanks, Mayor.

We're going back to Madame Gaudreau, please.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let's continue the discussion.

Mayor, in urban planning, people talk about “spatial segregation”. Do you want a project that's exclusively for veterans or, on the contrary, do you want there to be a mix that integrates the city, families, seniors and businesses?

You briefly referred to it, but since you're talking about a pilot project, I'd like to know your perspective. I would also like to know what Mr. McKay thinks.

[Robert Small]

I'll start.

What would I like to see in this facility? First of all, of course, it's homes for veterans. As I'm listening to this committee, I'm thinking about the types of services that.... There are those wraparound services for veterans, but I'm thinking about other opportunities so that the public can enjoy the facility as well.

We'd like to have it as a satellite recruitment site for veterans and potential reservists. Amherst has always been a big supporter of that.

I don't see why we would want to restrict it to just veterans. I think if there's an opportunity there for the public to use the facility as well, why wouldn't we do that? To me, that just makes sense.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

The concern is isolation, as we've mentioned. It's clear that veterans need to be together. However, to avoid having a project where the concept is to designate an environment reserved for veterans, do you agree that it should become an integrated living environment?

[Robert Small]

The short answer is yes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, but I'm speaking to Mr. McKay.

[Justin McKay]

I agree with the mayor. In a lot of ways, it would help the general population if it were integrated.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That completes my questions, but there's just one thing I want to say to all the witnesses.

There must be other things you would have liked to tell us. Please don't hesitate to send us that information, including the document referred to earlier. It will be incorporated into the report.

Thank you for being here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

We're going to Mrs. Cobena, and then we'll finish with Ms. Fancy.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

My questions are for Mr. McKay.

Mr. McKay, you're a veteran. Thank you for your service, sir, and for being with us today. As you may already know, $3 million was transferred out of a program to aid homeless veterans after it was claimed that it couldn't find ex-military personnel in need.

Could you please give us your reaction to that, and what the veteran community feels about the announcement?

[Justin McKay]

I'm very surprised by them saying they couldn't find veterans in need of that money, because two years ago, I worked on a file with a veteran here in town who was homeless, and we had trouble finding somewhere for him to live. Last year, I had a case manager reach out to me, looking for resources for two senior veterans who were at risk of becoming homeless, and my resource at that time was reaching out to Mayor Small and using the Hillsdale community, which is through the United Way here in Amherst.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Of course, the explanation that the department couldn't find enough veterans in need to spend the money is contrary to what we see in our communities. Is that the reality? Are there not enough veterans in need who could have used this funding?

[Justin McKay]

I think there probably are veterans in need who could use the funding, but some of them, as they say, fly under the radar as well. They don't want to be helped or they don't want to be seen. That's also a problem that has to do with the veteran community and the homeless population.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

When you look at the decision and how it was made, it was, of course, made confidentially because of the concerns around stakeholder reactions. What are your thoughts on how this decision was made, and how veterans and veterans organizations were apparently not even openly told about the transfer?

[Justin McKay]

At all levels, there needs to be more communication with veterans on needs. Some guys or gals won't come forward when they're having a hard time. They need to be prodded. I think something we all could be better at doing is putting it more out there if someone is looking for help. Some people just don't want to come and ask for it.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

What message do you think transferring this money sends to veterans who are currently struggling to find stable housing?

[Justin McKay]

I think it makes them question the department's decision. Why would they do it? There are ways to find people who are homeless. You can find them.

There needs to be more consultation with organizations like VETS Canada and Homes For Heroes, to see if they could use that money. I watched some of the previous testimony about that, and those shareholders should be reached out to, to see if that surplus money would benefit those organizations.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I agree 100%.

We think about this broadly too. What message does it send to our youth when they see the government giving up on veterans at the end of their careers? What incentive is there for youth to join and serve?

[Justin McKay]

It's funny you ask me that today, because this morning, when I opened up the regimental museum for a work party we had there for the unit, that is pretty much exactly what one of the newest, youngest members said to me: “People don't care anymore.” When they see that, it makes them want to serve even less.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Absolutely. Thank you for that.

I have a couple of questions for Ms. Blackburn, if I may. They're along the same lines of this news that $3 million intended to help homeless veterans was transferred out.

What is your reaction? You run the food bank for veterans.

[Marie Blackburn]

I find it rather disgusting, to be honest with you.

Like Justin said, did they reach out to anybody and ask, “Can anybody use this surplus?” I can guarantee you that our organization—which has four offices in Alberta, and we service Manitoba, Saskatchewan and B.C.—could certainly have put that money to good use, whether it was for homelessness, food on the table or counselling services.

Hearing what our veterans already feel about the government and how unsupported they feel, I think if they knew this, there would be a lot of public outrage about it. I don't think it's fair that proper due diligence wasn't utilized for that money to go to the people who truly need it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

Ms. Fancy.

[Jessica Fancy-Landry, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Being a fellow politician from Nova Scotia and coming from a small rural community as well, it's really good to see here a small rural community, with all three levels of government across multiple different parties, to talk about rural issues, in particular on the theme of veterans. I really want to get that out there. It's an absolute privilege to serve, and it's a joy to see all three levels of government from Amherst, Nova Scotia, here today.

That being said, I know that with our framework, report or whatever we want to call this in terms of action items, there are some good-news stories out there that sometimes we don't get to talk about. I'm a new member here in OGGO and also a new member of Parliament. I have heard stories from our colleague Terry Sheehan from Sault Ste. Marie about what their local Legion has done with local developers, building a Legion with then housing above the Legion and wraparound services. Those are the types of good-news stories, frameworks and templates that we should be replicating throughout the whole country. From our colleague Mr. Danko today, I've heard what they've been able to do, not particularly with veterans but with a lot of unhomed people, with their development in Hamilton. It's created a community hub with shelter services, transitional housing and different clinicians within this development.

These are the types of good-news stories that I think we as a government need to be amplifying and growing.

I'm sorry. I just wanted to take a little bit of breadth and depth within the line of questioning there. I don't want to be Miss Polly Positivity here—