Evidence of meeting #5 for Subcommittee on Sports-Related Concussions in Canada in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.
A video is available from Parliament.
Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, CPC
Beautiful.
Speaking of Ontario, one of the things I've heard from Concussion North relates to the billing by doctors for concussion-related injuries. There isn't a specific billing cycle for concussion, so they basically have to bill under a very limited dollar-per-hour, which then allows them almost no ability to give the additional services that are needed.
If you're looking at a comprehensive approach, having both the doctor who specializes in head injuries and the general practitioner, as well as perhaps somebody who's going to help with exercises and so on, the money just isn't there. I don't think that was covered in Rowan's law.
In cases you've seen in the professional environment, is it the teams that pick up most of the bills for treating this?
As an Individual
We really didn't have a whole lot going on in the past. A lot of the protocols occurring in the early and mid-1990s are still being used right now.
Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, CPC
That's interesting.
Have you seen a recommendation come out related to healing during the summer months? I think you talked about it a little, but is there a recommendation we can specifically look at that says, “Take this much time off from this sport. This much time off helps the brain regenerate and heal”?
As an Individual
This is the hard part about all this. You're never going to find a real black-and-white definitive answer. Every body is different. Every brain is different. Everyone is going to react differently to different things.
Is there a specific time? You're never going to come up with that. No one is going to agree with that. However, common sense says that if you continually bash your truck, down the road something is going to give.
We have to start moving on with a lot more common sense, as opposed to the numbers here or the days there. We know what's right. We know in our heart what's right. Let's move forward. If you choose not to, that's your choice, but let's lay it out and inform people as much as possible about what the options are for them and why.
Mr. Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East—Cooksville, Lib.)
Thank you.
We're going to move over to Ms. Hardcastle, from the NDP.
Cheryl Hardcastle Windsor—Tecumseh, NDP
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Lindros. I follow your advocacy work all the time. It's extremely important right now, because we do know, with this issue, that besides having a common-sense approach, it is going to take some culture changes as well.
To give you a general heads-up with regard to my time, I'm going to ask you about what you see as the low-hanging fruit and the opportunities for us to seize on, especially with regard to using a blanket approach.
I will ask you to speak on that, but can you start by talking a bit about what you think could be done in terms of a culture change? We did have Rugby Canada's director Paul Hunter come and talk to us about the development of Rowan's law and about the culture change initiative they've developed, which is zero tolerance. Maybe you have some ideas about how we could get our heads around that and be part of a general narrative that includes concussion awareness in that type of context.
I'll leave that to you to talk about, and about opportunities with blanket approaches.
As an Individual
Okay.
First of all, I think it has improved. Now, when parents are going out and watching hockey, yes, they're cheering for their kid and looking out for their kid and the kid's teammates, but more and more, you're seeing people look out for the other team as well, which is amazing. It's what we want. This is starting to happen. The communication has been there. It's been moving. Now we have a window to really define it, clean it up and work within it.
Let's start with the low-hanging fruit you mentioned—hits to the head. Ken Dryden speaks about this all the time. I'm sorry, but if you hit someone on the head.... To make it black and white, any hits to the head are penalized. That would clean up a lot. I think that's a very easy one. It's simple. You're going to find, too, that if you start it in the culture with the young, and it's spoken about at school, it's going to progress as people grow.
The school system, to me, is the way we really inform. In Ontario, we have Rowan's Law Day. The idea was to take an hour and a half once a year and really go through what concussion is and what to look for. Let's look for it within. Let's look for it in our friends, and in the people we're going to be competitive against. Let's make sure we're all safe. That's our big concern.
Starting young and moving our way up.... Why can't we start with all the grade 1 students throughout Canada? Let's start there, on Rowan's Law Day. The messaging in grade 1 would be a little different from that in grade 2, and a little different from that in grade 3. As you progress and get older and more mature, and you understand more, the message correlates to the age group. I think starting in the school system, just for that one day, that hour and a half, would make a huge difference. It's possible. The information is there. God knows, we have amazing doctors in Canada who can vet this. It's about getting all the groups to say, “We want to work under one hood.”
A lot of people are trying, and a lot of people are pulling on the rope. I think we get further ahead if we work together as one. If they're receiving federal or provincial government money, you kind of tell them what to do a little bit: “This is how we're going to change. This is what we'd like to see. We're not shoving it down your throat. Let's work to just change this a little bit and see how it goes.”
Windsor—Tecumseh, NDP
Can you give us an example of how...? That's partly what the mandate of this committee is, to take testimony and make recommendations with it, assuming the testimony is based on evidence. Can you give us more specifics? What would you like to see as a directive, if we're giving federal dollars to a group? I'll be hypothetical, and then you can respond: “You can't have federal dollars unless you share your research with like-minded organizations.” Is that what you mean?
As an Individual
Sure, let's start there. If you have the best imaging machines at McGill and Western, what programs can we set up so the load is being shared and they're working together and communicating? One might be better at one part than the other. Let's work together and get this done faster. Let's not just let it sit there with one group. Something might overflow into another area of research, but if you're helping to purchase that machine, then I would think you have a say.
Windsor—Tecumseh, NDP
Good. You don't just mean sharing information, then; you mean sharing the actual resources to do the research and get the evidence together, for example with imaging.
As an Individual
Yes. My thought was that if people are good at blood biomarkers, let's get all of our best blood biomarker people working on a project together and collaborating. Maybe someone is missing something along the way. I always think that if you get into a situation.... It's not just me and Peter who are going to sit here and talk about concussion. We're going to get a whole group together, and we're going to work. We're going to get as many ideas as possible floating around, and then we'll go through them, shrink them down, pick four or five targets and go at it.
I don't think the research is making the group wide enough, and they're not working together as nicely as they could be. If you think pro sport is fierce, you should see these researchers. It's unreal. It is fierce. It's very competitive in the research world.
Let's get it up. Let's have timelines and look into how we can improve things. Money is hard to come by, and it's Canadians' dollars. Let's show what's working, where the money's going, what's progressing and what has come out of it.
Mr. Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East—Cooksville, Lib.)
Thank you.
We're going to move over to the Liberals now, with Dr. Doug Eyolfson.
Doug Eyolfson Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, Lib.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, sir, for coming.
One of the big things we've heard about so far with concussions is of course prevention. This squares with something you said, which is that there should be severe penalties for hits to the head and this sort of thing.
Of course, something that's very controversial in professional hockey, particularly with the NHL, is the issue of fighting. They don't have fighting in the junior leagues, and you certainly won't see that in the Olympics.
It's technically against the rules in any game, yet the NHL still tolerates it. It's still there. The game goes on and the people are still on the ice. Why does the NHL still tolerate fighting the way it does?
As an Individual
I can't speak for the NHL, and quite honestly, any time you mix athletics and money, the lines blur.
I don't think you should focus there. I think that's the top end. If you work on the culture making its way through, I think you're going to see an effect at the end of the stream, as opposed to doing anything up top and having it affect things.
I can speak to the OHL, the CHL and junior hockey. Look at the OHL. Dave Branch has done a fantastic job. He was the first one to implement the big 10-game suspension. For anybody who swings or just gets carried away, it's not a one- or two-game suspension anymore; it's a 10-gamer or a 12-gamer. It's 20% of your season.
Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, Lib.
Okay. Why wouldn't you have that in the NHL?
Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, Lib.
The reason I ask is that it's something that a lot of young players aspire to, and you have college players—