Health Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2006

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fletcher.

I thank you for saying that I'm on the high road. I hope to remain on the high road. I don't like to make promises I can't keep, so I'll try to behave for the rest of the committee meeting.

I think as a country we crossed a Rubicon on Monday. This project is affecting some of our most vulnerable people, our first nations women who are pregnant, many of whom, perhaps in some cases, have at-risk pregnancies. If we were going to start with a wait times guarantee project, what better place to start?

I want to thank the Assembly of First Nations who are our partners in this. They had some good things to say about this initiative, and certainly I believe it can be a beacon to the country that wait time guarantees are really part of the solution.

There are some doubters out there. There are some people who believe wait time guarantees are not important, or not necessary, or create more problems than they solve. I think we have to be honest and acknowledge that. Some of them are health ministers who feel that way. But at the end of the day, 85% of Canadians want wait time guarantees. All the research, all the polling, shows that is the case.

It is incumbent upon us to seek not only solutions but also to seek agreement where we can find it. Certainly, I think by this measure that we announced on Monday we are showing leadership. We are saying to those who would just say that it's not possible, that it can't be done, that it is possible, that it is being done.

You go to some other countries that are far more advanced on this than we are and wait time guarantees are in place; they're working. In fact, they're making them even more aggressive. My point of view is we've lost some time on this issue in the past. There's no point in heeding the Jeremiahs or the Cassandras in the future. We have to move forward.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

Thank you, Minister.

Minister, the chair of this committee was a health critic for the opposition for many years. I had a little stint in that position. One thing the Conservative Party championed during its entire time in opposition was the compensation for hepatitis C victims from tainted blood. Every time we asked the question, we were told they would not be compensated, and at the end, the Liberals just out and out disappointed, to put it mildly.

I'm trying to follow your example of statesmanship, Mr. Minister.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I'm a good influence on you.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

When we came into office, it was quite apparent that there was no work done whatsoever to compensate people with hepatitis C from tainted blood, and the Liberals clearly had no intention of doing so, as was already demonstrated when they denied the victims in the first place.

Mr. Minister, I have to say that the former health critics are very impressed with the leadership and determination that you've demonstrated on this issue, as well as the Prime Minister.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Former.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

It's a good thing we were former health critics, Ms. Dhalla, because now we have a Conservative government and these people are getting compensated.

Mr. Minister, can you share with us some of the feedback that you have received from hepatitis C victims and their stakeholder organizations due to the courageous and aggressive push you had to make sure these people were compensated?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you.

I think we should also acknowledge the leadership of the Prime Minister on this file. It certainly would not have taken place without his leadership.

The response in the community affected by this has been uniformly positive and encouraging. They realize through their legal representatives that this is the deal they wanted. The problem with doing side deals or segmented deals is that the class is so diverse. Some people need tens of thousands of dollars' worth of help and others need a hundred dollars' worth of help. It would have taken a heck of a lot of time and effort to try to create a partial settlement, and we would never get to the future settlement. That was the worry.

Everyone agreed to work on the total settlement and get it approved as quickly as possible. That's the state of cooperation we've had from all the parties. I can tell you, without naming any names, that individual hepatitis C sufferers have e-mailed me, written to me, and telephoned to indicate that they know that this has been a complex process, made more complex by governmental inaction in the past. They are happy that justice is being done.

In some cases, it's not the money itself, although the money will help. It is the fact that there's a recognition that innocent victims are being compensated.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

On one final area, Minister, you are internationally known for your leadership during the SARS crisis. This government has invested a huge amount of money in pandemic preparedness. I wonder if you can provide this committee and Canadians with an update on where you see Canada on this file.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Sure. I will pass it over to Dr. Butler-Jones in a little bit, but let me just say that we have made great progress on this file since our election. The progress is not only in financial terms, in terms of having the billion dollars available to us, including the $600 million for additional pandemic planning, but also what I have seen is a degree of cooperation with provincial and territorial counterparts that has been unprecedented. Certainly that cooperation did not exist when I was a provincial health minister. We really had to build it from scratch, if you will.

It is happening. We are just about to conclude some memorandums of understanding with the provinces on pandemic planning. There's a new pandemic plan, a new version. We believe in continuous improvement when it comes to pandemic planning, so there will be a new version of the plan that's coming out. We're just finalizing that.

David, I don't know if you wanted to add anything.

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

No. I think we just continue each month after month to be in a better position. While we can't anticipate everything, some time in the new year we should have enough anti-virals in place to, in a sense, treat everybody in Canada who would require and desire treatment. As well, we have the contract in place for the development of a pandemic vaccine sufficient to immunize all Canadians once it's available. Also there is the work not only at the federal level or the provincial and local levels in the development of plans that continue, but also in the private sector, and other communities and community groups continue to improve their own planning and working at cross-sectors to address that.

Again, month by month I'm very impressed with the continued progress.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

I'll remind the committee that we're through the first round, which was fifteen, ten, ten, and ten. Now we're going to five, five, five, and we'll start with Ms. Keeper. You have five minutes.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Thank you.

I would like to start by saying I'm a little shocked by some of the statements made by the minister. I am an aboriginal woman. I come from a first nations community. I've worked extensively with first nations communities. Some of the statements made, especially around the decision by the government to cancel funding on the first nations and Inuit tobacco control strategy, lead me to think that there should have been consultation with first nations and Inuit people before that decision was made.

Certainly, I have to say that one of the key health determinants has to be about this conciliatory process, about consultation, and about self-determination. In fact, self-determination probably is one of the most important key health determinants, and we're talking about equity.

We've heard presentations by the AFN that only 4% of the program funding under FNIHB actually gets to the communities, that there are funding caps that are inequitable to funding transfers for the provinces. The former Liberal government had worked with great effort to develop a process with first nations and Inuit and Métis people to ensure there was a collaborative process in place to close the gap on these health crises. I'm not sure how the minister thinks that $38.1 million could possibly compare to $1.3 billion.

Calling this pilot project a wait times guarantee on basic health care--basic health care that Canadians enjoy--for ten communities from out of more than 600 communities is a strong point as well. I think that part of the Kelowna accord and part of the 2004 health accord on aboriginal health, the blueprint on aboriginal health, was to ensure that there were measures in place to have adequate basic health care services for aboriginal people.

I would like to ask a question of the minister on a public health issue, because in my riding we have faced a public health crisis over the last year, and in fact—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

You'll have to get to your question fairly soon, because you've used over half your time.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

I would like to ask about the pandemic preparedness funding. Will any of that funding be flowing to the first nations and Inuit health branch to ensure that first nations have pandemic preparedness as well?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Yes, and I will defer to David on that, but to quickly answer one of your barbs, we spend—

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

It's not a barb; there is a health crisis in first nations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Please allow the minister to answer.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you.

The Government of Canada spends $1.99 billion on first nations and Inuit health branch programs; $61 million of that goes to program management. So I think your math is a little bit off when you say that.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

That's not my math; that was presented by the Assembly of First Nations.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Well, their math is off, then.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Well, that money is not getting to communities.

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

In terms of pandemic preparedness across communities, in provincial activities as well as our own, the first nations and Inuit health branch is involved with various and different reserves, just as with different municipalities that are at a different level of planning, but certainly with the new resource, part of that is intended to provide a resource for us, working with FNIHB and others, to help facilitate the development of plans on reserve as well as off reserve.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Could I ask why there is not a representative from FNIHB here as well--there is?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Yes.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

I would like to ask what consultation, if any, was done on the decision to cancel the funding on the tobacco control strategy.