Evidence of meeting #32 for Health in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was regulations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
And is it raised at the same time organ transplant is? People will talk about organ transplant at the end of life if someone is conscious. Would sperm donation come up at the same time?
Senior Strategic Policy Advisor, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
It could. I cannot answer that. It could be coming up at the same time.
Senior Strategic Policy Advisor, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
On your last question about stem lines, what I can say is that the regulations you have in front of you don't go into the details of the information that would be.... Regulations are going to be developed under section 10, the controlled activities, which deals with research and the information that should be provided for the different kinds of research that would be allowable. It will be raised in that set of regulations; it will be covered there.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
The one we missed was the availability of education and awareness material.
Senior Strategic Policy Advisor, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
Yes, in different languages—
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
I mean material in different languages, from a real person, all of that, as opposed to being in the form of “Guess what? You can get material if you want it.”
Senior Strategic Policy Advisor, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
That's a responsibility we leave to the agency. It's difficult for us to speak on behalf of the agency. I think their mandate is, similarly, to make information available, and also to try to provide information about prevention, I guess. But I cannot speak for them. I'm sure they should be making it.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
Okay. Thank you.
It has raised a number of questions about consent, though, Mr. Chair, the answers to which won't be available in this section.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Yes. We have spent three years. Don't worry. There are going to be more questions.
Mr. Batters.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I can see why you would have taken three years on this topic. This is really quite a fascinating and very difficult subject.
May I say, Ms. Priddy, I thought your questions were superb.
I have a very short question. It's a short question, but it's a very complicated question for the witnesses. First of all, thank you very much to all of you for being here today.
In Health Canada's presentation, there's a statement that says:
Violation of section 8 carries with it the consequence of criminal penalties, therefore:
the scope of the regulations must be clearly defined and focus only on the essential elements; and,
the regulations must be very clear to prevent inadvertent contravention of the law.
In my five minutes, I'd like each of you to talk to me and educate me about what types of contraventions we're talking about here. If you can, list as many under the sun as possible. What are the penalties? We're talking criminal penalties. What penalties are being contemplated? Where are we in that process? Is the justice department involved in this process? Are the penalties already defined? That's what I'd like you to talk about in the five minutes, please. Thank you.
Senior Strategic Policy Advisor, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
The penalties are already defined in the legislation in section 60. It says if you're in contravention of any of the sections 5 to 9, which are the prohibitions, which is what we're talking about here, a person:
(a) is liable, on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding $500,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years, or to both; or
(b) is liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding $250,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding four years, or to both.
These are the penalties to which we could be subject.
Conservative
Senior Strategic Policy Advisor, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
No, that's what the text says.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
What type of violation are we talking about? I just want you to talk to me about the scope and educate me as to the scope of what violations we're talking about here--as many as you can name within the five minutes, seriously.
Senior Strategic Policy Advisor, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
Section 8 details the information somebody needs to provide to a person before the person can give consent. If you miss something there, if you don't have one of the components, you could be in contravention of section 8.
You also need to make sure that the person will consent and that the consent shows for exactly what purpose. He's going to say he wants to have his gametes used to create an embryo, either for his own reproductive use, for a third party, or to improve...and each one of them will have to be noted, if you want. So all of those requirements and all the information would need to be there--maybe that's the part that's going to be part of it also. So if you miss something, you are in contravention, basically.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
Who is in contravention? Who do you see as the potential criminals here? You talk about criminal penalties. Who would be in contravention?
Acting Director, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
Can I just explain? In this context, it would be the licensees, the licence holders. You're also drawing a very straight line between a contravention and criminal action.
The enforcement power is going to be entrusted with the agency, and what the agency will probably do.... We've contracted with the Health Canada inspectorate, and, as Hélène said, we have 23 inspections officers who go out and visit clinics and other sites and talk to the clinics. Right now they're doing outreach, information exchange, and things like that.
Once the regulations are in place, they'll be going out and doing inspections, and if they see a contravention of the regulations—
December 7th, 2006 / 4:25 p.m.
Acting Director, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
They will be talking to the clinic. Basically, they'll be pointing out what the contraventions are, seeking compliance. It will be quite interesting to see whether they would go to the RCMP unless it were a very serious infraction. The objective is to seek compliance in the best way possible for the clients and the clinics.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
This is my last question, Mr. Chair.
What we need, though, in all our laws is consistency and uniformity in how those laws are applied. How are we going to see that in this case?
Director General, Policy Development Directorate, Department of Health
With regard to consent, section 8, what I wanted to add to that is that it will be the clinics, of course, but it will also be other individuals who currently, under provincial law, can practise in this field. We know GPs are practitioners. We know that some of the gynecologists and obstetricians are as well, so consent section 8 applies to them as well.
Senior Strategic Policy Advisor, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
If I may add, the regulation is very clear that the person who is liable is basically the person who is making use of, say, the gametes, and that person will have to ensure that the other person who signed a consent was informed of everything he needs to be informed of. Basically it's very clear.
I think uniformity is a very good point. That's the purpose of those regulations, to ensure more uniformity across the country.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
This is my key point, though. At what point do you say, there, there, a slap on the wrist, you have to do things differently, this is terrible? And at what point are you talking about a potential $500,000 fine and imprisonment? That's something that's really important, to work out exactly how that's going to work.
Senior Strategic Policy Advisor, Assisted Human Reproduction Implementation Office, Department of Health
Once the regulations are in force, everybody will have to abide by them.