Health Committee on Feb. 12th, 2007

[Joyce Reynolds]

The food and drug regulation says they can't do that, and that's the message they want to convey. They want to convey that message in promotions and advertising. There's a recognition—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

How come?

[Joyce Reynolds]

The regulation was put in place to prevent people from transitioning simply from a trans fat to a saturated fat. That is the reason it was put in place. The problem is that when you have the breadth of products in a food service establishment, you're going to have some products that have naturally occurring saturates that are higher than the two grams.

So there is a recognition that it needs to be changed, that it needs to be dealt with. It's a case of not wanting to wait. Sally asked if it would be faster to get rid of trans. We hope that's not the case. We hope those companies that have already eliminated trans fat from their processing will have an opportunity to make that information available--

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

If the department simply changed a regulation, that would allow them to do that?

[Joyce Reynolds]

Yes.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you.

Ms. Kadis.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome, everyone.

When I see in the materials statements such as that trans fats are toxins, I think we obviously all take this very seriously. Considering that we need an alternative--and that's been referenced a lot in the documentation in the task force—how much emphasis are you putting on research such as Dr. Marangoni's?

[Dr. Alejandro Marangoni]

Here's an interesting thing about exactly what you said. The food industry is not going to do absolutely anything if you don't regulate. It's a very low-margin industry. They're trying to make do. I work with many of them. They're just not going to do it. When they say “one year's time”, they don't even listen to you, because one year's time is way into the future.

You could say trans fatty acids are illegal today, and you wouldn't see a difference tomorrow. People could start using saturated fats. They just cannot make a single claim. You probably won't see that much change in the food products you consume. People cannot make the claim, that's all.

You could remove them tomorrow, if you wanted to, without any difference in price of any of the products that you use. So yes, they're not good, and yes, you cannot make the claims, but you could take them out. There's no issue about that.

As to research about novel ways of doing it, we've known since 1990, or before, here in Canada that trans fatty acids are bad. Nothing happened until the government said you must label them, at the end of 2005. Nobody moved a centimetre before then, and nobody will move another centimetre unless you tell them to do so. Why? Margins are low. Fat is cheap, hydrogenated fat. Now there are solutions out there. So you could take trans fat out completely tomorrow.

If you want to remove the saturated fats, you have to get into some crazy stuff like this. I think the Government of Canada, through NSERC, the Advanced Foods & Materials Network, and the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs—all of them have active programs supporting researchers at the University of Guelph and other places to do this kind of work, and I believe other organizations are supporting them too. So it's out there. Whether industry wants to adopt those technologies and come in and support them, that's another issue altogether. The food industry probably doesn't have the money to do that anyway.

That really is the point. If you want a real solution, if you want to call it that—no trans fat, no saturated fat—that's a little more complicated.

[Joyce Reynolds]

Can I respond to that as well?

I don't totally agree with you that the only way you're going to get action from the industry is through regulation, because we've already seen a huge number of companies transitioning out of trans fat. That's because consumers are demanding it. We are a consumer-driven industry, and that's the big driving force.

But I also want to draw to your attention to section 6.1.3 in the report, which actually recommends further research in a number of areas on trans fat. We very much endorse that recommendation as well.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

That's what I was actually getting at. I wanted to see the linkage between the two. Obviously we want to see the federal government continuing to invest in those areas.

Also—if I have more time, Mr. Chair—I want to ask how the recommendations of the task force could be incorporated into this committee's final report on childhood obesity, because that's something we're bringing forward soon.

[Sally Brown]

It would be with some difficulty.

A fat is a fat. Trans fats don't contribute to obesity any more than saturated fats do. They're not good, but they're no more caloric than saturated fats. So any fat will contribute to obesity.

In some ways, I wish they weren't called “trans fats”. Maybe if they were called “doorknobs” or something, then the distinction between them as an obesity-related ingredient and the fact that they're a toxin that is a risk factor for coronary artery disease would be clearer.

So we're really pleased you're looking at this, but trans fats aren't really an obesity issue.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

Yet we've heard, I believe, that our young people are more susceptible to heart disease at a younger age. I believe that's being set in place by diet.

[Sally Brown]

Oh, absolutely. The products that tend to be high in calories are the products that are either high in saturated fats or high in trans fats. All I'm saying is the caloric value is not that different between a trans fat and a saturated fat. The difference is that one of them also has this other huge, not passive but active, activity that makes it worse for coronary heart disease.

Our children are at huge risk because they're eating junk food. A lot of that junk food has both saturated fats and trans fats in it. So inasmuch as reducing our fat intake and our sugar intake is critical for childhood obesity, the distinction between trans fats and fats for obesity is marginal. What we're saying is, trans fat not only contributes to obesity because it's a fat, but it also, over and above that, six times worse, contributes to coronary heart disease.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

I want to pick up on that because your time is gone, but it relates to our study. We not only want children to understand that obesity and being overweight causes a health risk, but it's not about having skinny kids; it's about having healthy kids and a healthy country.

We need to remove the trans fats from children's diets, so they can be six times healthier.

[Sally Brown]

Absolutely, Mr. Chair.

I think Mr. Priddy said it: our children are being raised on a trans-fat-laden diet. No other generation has done that. By the time they are within the age of having coronary artery disease, they're at way greater risk, and this has to be dealt with by this committee.

As I said, we commend you for looking at it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much. I just wanted that distinction made.

Ms. Davidson, you have five minutes. No?

Mr. Batters.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here today.

I thought the last exchange was beneficial. While we're looking at childhood obesity as an issue, this is really an issue about coronary artery disease and the sixfold increase or greater chance of CAD with trans fat as compared to a saturated fat. I think that's powerful information.

All of us are concerned about the cost to the overall health care system and how that will be sustainable into the future.

If you look at my friend Mr. Dykstra, he has children. As kids grow up with this diet laden with trans fats, it will be a cost to the system. The only people happy here might be cardiologists, but they'd tell you they're not happy either. This is spiralling out of control. I think that testimony was useful for this committee.

Let me ask if anyone before us today has any problems with this report. Is there anything you strenuously disagree with? Like all the witnesses before, do you like everything you see in this report, and are you 100% on-board with it? Is that correct?

Paul.

[Paul Hetherington]

We'll have some comments with regard to some of the issues in the report, as I mentioned in our brief. I call them observations.

From a regulatory perspective, there are going to be some issues on addressing combination foods that use both a processed fat and a natural fat. I'm probably more focused on implementation issues.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

If the regulations are finalized—and I think you addressed this previously, Ms. Brown—will farmers and the industry have time to comply with the regulations, and is the timetable reasonable? Do you believe that?

[Sally Brown]

I believe it.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

If Health Canada doesn't pursue a regulatory approach—Sorry, yes.

[Joyce Reynolds]

In terms of the report, you asked if we were fully onside. As Sally said, there were lots of compromises in terms of putting this report together. There are some things we would have changed or done differently, but we are committed to the report in its current form. We think that it's a very reasonable report and provides for some flexibility for some of those more difficult applications.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Ms. Reynolds, the CRFA issued “Guidelines and a Users Guide for Foodservice Operators” for reducing or eliminating trans fats in menu items. The document stated that CRFA supported the recommendations of this task force, and the guidelines and the user guide were developed to assist food service operators to reduce or eliminate trans fats foods sold in their restaurants. Are members of your association using these documents? Can you estimate the proportion of food service companies that are in the process of reducing trans fat levels in their menu items?

[Joyce Reynolds]

It's very difficult for us to assess that; we have 34,200 members. The document I distributed today is available to every food service operator across the country from our website. We've tried to publicize its availability as much as possible. This is obviously an issue of huge interest to our members.

We're certainly aware of the activities of our larger members. In terms of the smaller members, to be honest with you, I don't think some of them are even aware of some of the trans fats that are in the products they're purchasing. That's one of the reasons we put that guide together, to force them to look at what they're purchasing, at what contains trans fat, and to talk to their suppliers about providing alternatives.