Evidence of meeting #5 for Health in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fasd.
Director General, First Nations and Inuit Health Community Programs Directorate, Department of Health
Actually, what I pointed out is that we collaborate on a grand level. For example, there are—
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
No, I want you to comment on the message. Is your message based on that message, which in my view is incorrect?
Director General, First Nations and Inuit Health Community Programs Directorate, Department of Health
I think our message is more holistic when we work with first nations and Inuit communities. We talk about having health and all the things it takes to be healthy, and—
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
You tell young women of child-bearing age that they should not be drinking if they're not using birth control.
Director General, First Nations and Inuit Health Community Programs Directorate, Department of Health
I'm not exactly sure of the specific message, but I can check and get back to you on that. I know we do talk about a healthy lifestyle—
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
You're in charge of the program and you don't know what the message is?
Director General, First Nations and Inuit Health Community Programs Directorate, Department of Health
We're talking about a healthy lifestyle; we're talking about women at risk who are already drinking, and we talk to them about the harms it does to their baby. That is the key message in our program.
I also explained that when we did our opinion survey, we asked them if they understood that stopping the use of alcohol was an important factor in increasing the likelihood of healthy babies. That is not—
Director General, First Nations and Inuit Health Community Programs Directorate, Department of Health
Eighty-six percent of first nations said yes and 79% of Inuit said yes.
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
Yes, but that could mean that once they think they are pregnant, and the doctor has told them they are pregnant, then they have to stop drinking—but as Mr. Szabo pointed out, between day 15 and 22, before they know they're pregnant, is when the serious damage is done. So that's why I'm asking you this.
Despite the fact this message is agreed upon by provinces, territories, and the Public Health Agency, it would seem to me that you are dealing with an at-risk population and that you should have the correct message. Are you willing to break from that message, which is incorrect, and give the correct message to your clientele?
Director General, First Nations and Inuit Health Community Programs Directorate, Department of Health
In fact, during earlier proceedings, I made a note for myself to go back and ensure we had the accurate message.
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
Can I just supplement that very briefly?
At the UN in 2003, the position we took—which is our continuing position, and which I'm sorry wasn't reflected in the remarks clearly—is that if you're thinking about becoming pregnant, or are pregnant, you should have no alcohol. I would extend that to being, if there's a possibility of pregnancy, you should have no alcohol either. That's the message. Now on some liquor bags, in some campaigns that are provincial, or whatever, they may just say that if you're pregnant, no alcohol. But that's not the position we put forward.
On the issue of promotion, etc., the PTs have promotions. They've not asked for federal engagement on that.
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
However, they have asked for leadership, and you imply in your remarks that your message is the message they've all agreed to—and that message is incorrect.
We're not as interested in what we said at the UN as we are in what all our people are saying together, so that the basic premise of all the advertising and messaging is the same and that it's correct. Can some work be done to modify the message as it's articulated on page 6?
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
Absolutely, because that is the intent of the wording, that if you're thinking about becoming pregnant, or if it's possible that you are pregnant, then you have to be avoiding alcohol.
Conservative
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I have a couple of quick questions for Dr. Butler-Jones.
Although you work under the minister, as the Chief Public Health Officer in the country you have a dual role in that you can issue reports to Parliament that are tabled in Parliament, that speak to the Canadian people about areas of concern for public health. If the evidence presented today is any indication, this perhaps needs some attention. Would you consider taking up your role as the Chief Public Health Officer, show that leadership, and issue a report as to what you think should be done on this very important subject? There seems to be some hesitancy or some inconsistency as to where we're headed, as I think Ms. Davidson pointed out. Would you consider that?
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
Absolutely.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you.
I have a quick question. Has the department or agency developed the lifetime costs, up to age 65 years of age, for example, for individual Canadians with FASD? Do we have any costing of this condition?
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
The cost estimate that's used in the U.S. and Canada is $1.5 million.
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
It is the lifetime cost.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
That's $1.5 million. Thank you.
How does the cost of caring for a child and then later an adult with FASD compare to the amount of money spent on prevention efforts? Could you speak to that?
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
Not unusually, the efforts on prevention underestimate the impact they would have.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
Okay.
Last question, Mr. Chair.
There was some work done in the prairie provinces--I think it was in Manitoba, Alberta, and Saskatchewan--regarding the number of people who are currently incarcerated or have been incarcerated who suffer from FASD. I believe it was something in the neighbourhood of 50% of the people in our prison system.
Do you have research, which you consider correct, on the number of prisoners in our penal institutions that have FASD, obviously at an immense cost in terms of the human cost and the financial cost of crime and then the cost of incarcerating these individuals? Do you have research in that area that you'd like to speak about?
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
That figure is one that's often used. It depends on the jurisdiction. We'll have to get back to you through the Correctional Service in terms of their view of the accurate number.
Clearly, one of the challenges of fetal alcohol syndrome is the inability to make the link between actions and consequences and to learn from that. That often leads to the situation where people are in conflict with the law repeatedly as a result.
