Health Committee on June 4th, 2007

[Daniel Chaput]

I would first like to specify that the establishment of MRLs is the responsibility of the Pest Management Regulatory Agency. I think the key message here is that the establishment of a maximum residue limit is based on the latest science. As Dr. Butler-Jones said, this evolves and now we're able to detect traces of pesticides at levels that we could not even think about before.

[Penny Priddy, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Since you are recommending it, I am assuming you're saying people will be healthier as a result of raising the pesticide limits.

Can I ask if this recommendation to raise pesticide limits for food came from the food and agricultural regulatory systems working group?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

I'm not familiar with the process.

[Penny Priddy, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Did it come from the food and agriculture working group?

[Daniel Chaput]

All I can say is that the MRLs are based on science and that the recommendation did not come from the food and agriculture working group.

[Penny Priddy, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

It did not. Okay.

When we say there is science--as Dr. Butler-Jones says, there are small pieces of science--is there a written comparative scientific basis for the standards in Mexico, the States, and Canada that would be available to us?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

I'm not sure that the science would be available. I think we'll have to take that question to the regulator.

[Penny Priddy, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Thank you.

My last question then is whether this issue been considered by SPP's health working group.

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Not that I'm aware of.

[Penny Priddy, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

While I understand it coming up under SPP, it's also health-related--surely more health-related than trade-related.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Mr. Haddow.

[Paul Haddow]

If I may, I apologize for the architecture of the SPP. The food and agriculture working group is actually the food and agricultural regulatory group. They shortened it. It's comprised solely of people from CFIA and Health Canada. Even if it says food and agriculture, the work is all being done by Health Canada. That's just to clarify it. Sometimes these titles are--

[Penny Priddy, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

But there are two different committees: a health committee and a health working group.

[Paul Haddow]

There are, yes.

[Penny Priddy, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

So we will get an answer back on that question.

And you said it did not go to the health working group.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move on to Mr. Fletcher. You have five minutes.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Dr. Butler-Jones. We had testimony from a public health official from British Columbia. He described the relationship that British Columbia has with individual states. It wasn't clear to some members of the committee how the relationship between the Public Health Agency of Canada, the provincial public health agencies, and the States interact. I wonder if you could take us through the relationship and how they interact with the other nations and with the World Health Organization. Can you describe a scenario such as the TB outbreak, which my colleague from the Bloc described, or avian flu, or some other fast-acting situation? How would PHAC and the other agencies work together and how would the Quarantine Act be implemented in such a case?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Essentially, there is a web of responsibilities. Public health is a local activity. Fundamentally, people get sick locally, issues happen locally, and disasters happen locally. They may happen in a whole lot of places at the same time, but they are local.

So there are provincial and territorial public health acts and local medical officers, nurses, inspectors, and others who manage things—infectious diseases, etc.—locally. Sometimes it just gets too big for them, at which time they engage us. We also operate the reference laboratory in Winnipeg, and others.

At the same time, in terms of planning ahead, we have the public health network, where there is this constant development and review of what are the best policies, programs, and ways of getting at the control of diseases, etc. And then we work internationally.

At the same time, when I was a local medical officer in Sault Ste. Marie, I had a good relationship with my counterparts in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan, and the upper mainland, and others do that, as we do from state to province and vice versa. These issues cross all our borders, and we need to be in constant communication, and to the extent to which we can coordinate our activities, we'll be more effective doing that.

In terms of what might happen, I'll just give you a very recent example with the case of measles in terms of how Canada would deal with that. We held the students behind because I was not satisfied that we'd minimized the risk sufficiently in that context to allow the students to get on the plane. At the same time, we were in conversation with the Japanese. We let W.H. Njoo know what we were doing, and we were working very closely with local authorities, etc., in terms of how best to manage it.

It was a difficult situation—not easy, very complex—but people pulled together, and fortunately one planeload of students left yesterday and another today, and the remainder, we anticipate, will go home tomorrow.

Again, it was a bit of a disruption, but it did ensure that we did not send some measles on a plane that would potentially infect other people.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

You have a minute and a half, but you don't have to use it.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

I saw a movie a couple of weekends ago called 28 Weeks Later, which is a sequel to another movie called 28 Days Later, which I guess you could describe as a public health issue, where a very rapidly spreading disease caused havoc and there were zombies running around all over the place. In the movie it was interesting how very well-intentioned people just made things worse and worse and worse as it went on.

I wonder, as a public health official, with the Quarantine Act and the amendments that were tabled and will be tabled after this presentation, do you feel comfortable that the government is taking all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that a 28 Days Later kind of scenario would not take place?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

First of all, fortunately there is no disease that has ever been seen before that works like it did in 28 Days Later, but often that is people's image of how these things work.

Certainly we think that the amendments add to our repertoire, they don't take away from that. I think there are some opportunities. We can never guarantee against everything.

We have a situation with the TB case where he just didn't let people know and he didn't have symptoms, so no Quarantine Act would catch that.

So we'll work on all the various aspects of the system to continue to improve that. But nature is constantly inventive, and that's why we need to be flexible, responsive, and be thinking not just in terms of disease X, like H5N1, but of any potential disease and how we could respond, and to anticipate not simply what the best science teaches us but what we would do to mitigate if we were wrong, by any chance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Kadis, you have five minutes.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, everyone, for your presentations.

Today we're hearing that the federal government isn't considering making changes or increases to limits for allowable pesticide residues on food, although at a previous meeting we did hear witnesses say to the committee that it is possibly being considered, which I believe were the words. So there is a bit of a discrepancy there. Could you clarify that? And also, if this possible change or increase isn't coming from the food and agricultural regulatory group or any other of these working groups under SPP, where specifically is it coming from?

And secondly, specifically to Dr. Butler-Jones, are you considering prosecuting the individual who did not report the TB under our current Bill C-42 amendments to our Quarantine Act?

Those are the two questions, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Who would like to start?

Dr. Butler-Jones.