Health Committee on Nov. 15th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Before we continue, I want to clarify everything for everyone. Mr. Fletcher had another suggestion here, and there are a couple more who want to speak.

Just looking at it, it isn't very different from what we did before. There are seven minutes for the opposition party for the Liberals, there are seven minutes for the Bloc—this is what is being recommended—and the NDP have seven minutes on the first round, and then the Conservatives seven minutes as well. So it's all equal speaking times. Then, in the subsequent round, again the opposition Liberals start off, and then it's the PCs, the Bloc, the PCs, the NDP, PCs, and Liberals. It's not much different from what is done in other committees.

Having said that....

Mr. Thibault.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Dryden would also like to speak.

There is a difference. First of all, we have had a parliamentary tradition here for at least seven years, namely since I have been sitting here. According to this tradition, the official opposition is given a little bit more time to ask witnesses questions.

According to the current rules, when a minister or the Auditor General appears, for example, we are given 15 minutes as opposed to 10 minutes for the first round. For the other meetings, the official opposition is given two five-minute blocks during the first round, which makes 10 minutes. Ten minutes to question a witness who has made a 10-minute presentation is not a great deal of time. And now we are reducing the time given to the official opposition. I think that this constitutes a change.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Mr. Dryden.

[Ken Dryden, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

It's really the same point. It would seem on the face of it that you're saying everything is the same, if worded differently, except that in the first round of questioning the official opposition, instead of getting ten minutes of questions, would get seven minutes of questions. The other two opposition parties would get seven minutes of questions as opposed to five minutes, which seems incongruous in terms of tradition, as Mr. Thibault has said, and in terms of the role of the official opposition.

Your motion could just as easily have said that instead of getting two rounds of five minutes each, the opposition party would get two rounds of one minute each, and add those numbers to the other opposition parties. Why would they oppose it; why would you oppose it? We would end up with so many minutes less. It seems quite inappropriate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Mr. Fletcher.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

The official opposition has more members, so that's where the time could be made up, especially if we did it on a rotation basis. It would actually be in everyone's interests, and the democratic process would be fulfilled.

We've already heard from this side, and the Bloc and the NDP seem to be in favour, so why the delay? I wonder how we should proceed. Do we call a vote?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We'll have some further discussion, and then we'll call a vote shortly and bring it to an end.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

I haven't been around as long as someone like Bill Blaikie, but I have been around for ten years. In all that time I have never, as a committee member, experienced a two-tier system where the official opposition got more time in every round than any of the other parties. I don't think we want to begin to change that here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

Is there any further discussion, or are you ready to go?

Mr. Brown.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

If it would be helpful, I'd certainly view it as a friendly addition if we added that this was to strike paragraph one. In terms of Mr. Dryden's comments that you could just reduce it to one minute, that is a bit of an exaggeration, because this is very typical of what happens in other committees. No committee has ever suggested to go to one minute per round, so I think that's just making an unfortunate exaggeration.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You can't say your name in one minute.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Order.

Mr. Tilson, do you have something?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

No, I'm just agreeing with Ms. Wasylycia-Leis. In all committees we're all equal. I know there are parties, but all members are equal. It's as simple as that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Mr. Tilson.

I want to clarify it and take it to a vote now.

We can do one of two things. There was talk about getting rid of the first paragraph and replacing it with the amendment. There was also talk of keeping the second one as well.

Mr. Brown, can you clarify which one you are looking at doing with your motion?

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

It would be my suggestion, Madam Chair, that it's a choice of one of two things--one, this amendment, which strikes paragraph one and replaces it with what's been handed out, or to do nothing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

So that's keeping the second paragraph as well.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

Mr. Fletcher.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

I would second that: insert Mr. Brown's motion for the first paragraph and keep the second.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Okay, so we're going to vote first on the amendment by Mr. Brown.

(Amendment agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We will then change the first paragraph with what we have just accepted, and we will keep the second, so thank you, committee.

Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

What Mr. Brown has done is amended the.... I think we still have to vote on it, as amended, don't we?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Yes, we're getting to that, Mr. Tilson.

(Motion as amended agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Now we're down to number 8, staff at in camera meetings: that, unless otherwise ordered, each committee member be allowed to be accompanied by one staff person at an in camera meeting.

I need to have a mover of that.

Ms. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I have an amendment.