Okay, but let's take those two first. They are what we would call astroturf organizations. There's a clear strategy by the public relations companies working for the manufacturers to create patient groups to give their imprimatur of respectability to this kind of thing.
In terms of the Canadian Diabetes Association, the question I would ask is, how much money is the Canadian Diabetes Association receiving to lend their good name to this kind of advertising? I look at the guidelines produced by that organization and I ask, are these guidelines evidence-based? On some things they are very good; on others, it's as if the guidelines were written by somebody who works for a company selling those drugs.