Health Committee on Dec. 6th, 2007

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lui Temelkovski]

I call the meeting to order. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), this is a study of the government's response to the committee's report entitled “Healthy Weights for Healthy Kids”.

As all members are aware, we have another meeting here at 11 o'clock. You will notice some people coming in shortly to take their spots for the very important ethics committee meeting with Mr. Schreiber. We will try to get through our meeting on time to give them some room and some time to prepare.

This is our second meeting on the government response to the childhood obesity report. I would like to welcome officials from Indian Affairs and Northern Development Canada, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, and the Department of Finance. We will begin the meeting with an opening statement by Robert Eyahpaise from Indian Affairs and Northern Development Canada, followed by Mr. Hutton.

We will start with opening remarks, please.

[Robert Eyahpaise, Director, Social Services and Justice Directorate, Community Development Branch, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My name is Robert Eyahpaise and I'm the director of social services and justice, part of the social policy and programs branch at Indian Affairs. I'm here with my colleagues from the northern affairs program.

We concur with the focus of the standing committee's report on the need to address the specific circumstances facing aboriginal children and youth, especially when it comes to childhood obesity. The health and well-being of our aboriginal youth is vital for the future of their communities and for Canada. The report's direction is in keeping with our department's commitment to take concrete action in advancing the interests of aboriginal children and families and enhancing their well-being by providing the necessary support to our various programs.

When it comes to the health of first nations and Inuit children, the lead is with Health Canada, with their first nations and Inuit health branch. However, Indian and Northern Affairs plays a support role through the funding of programs that impact the social determinants of health. We continue to deliver services to first nations children and families through the first nations child and family services program, income assistance, assisted living, family violence prevention program, and the national child benefit reinvestment program. As an example of placing children first, we recently renovated our child and family services program towards an enhanced prevention approach that would see early intervention and prevention services that would stem the flow of first nations children coming into care. This work was done in partnership with provinces, first nations, and through INAC, through a tripartite accountability framework that started in Alberta. Drawing upon the success of this enhanced prevention approach in Alberta, we are now working with partners in other jurisdictions.

Also important is the work being done in the northern affairs program. For example, the northern contaminants program is carried out, together with northern aboriginal organizations, to study the implications for human health of contaminants found in certain traditional/country foods. This work results in dietary advice to northerners that reinforces the fact that, in most cases, the benefits of consuming country foods outweigh the risks. However, we are committed to continuing to assess the risks in traditional/country foods due to contaminants.

Further, we are reviewing our food mail program, which covers part of the cost of shipping healthy, affordable food to isolated northern communities. This is an interdepartmental effort including Health Canada, Industry, Transport, Agriculture, and Defence. The review will, first of all, determine how well the existing program meets its primary objective of ensuring that northerners, young and old, have access to a healthy, affordable diet, and will examine the adequacy of the current accountability regime. Next, we will assess potential improvements and how best to implement them. And finally, we will arrive at a durable solution.

The review will include stakeholder engagement. Also, we certainly welcome the views of this committee.

During the review, the department is taking nearer-term measures to improve accountability and efficiency and enhance food quality.

Five years ago we launched food mail pilot projects in three northern communities to focus additional support on priority perishable items that help form a healthy diet, such as fresh dairy products and vegetables. Since the pilot projects were launched, we've seen costs of these foods go down and shipment volumes increase. More work, however, is required to assess the impact on nutrition.

We are also about to release a revised northern food basket, used to monitor the cost of a healthy diet in isolated northern communities. The revised basket contains a wider selection of foods and reflects Health Canada's most recent Canada's food guide. The revised basket also includes a more accurate measurement of what it actually costs to feed a family in the north.

As indicated in the government response to the Standing Committee on Health's report, INAC will continue to work with other federal partners, drawing upon and reinforcing basic democratic values such as transparency, accountability, responsibility, and bringing clarity to the roles of the parties.

The Government of Canada's response to each of the report's recommendations provides details about programs and services already in place designed to help prevent unhealthy weights among aboriginal youth. We will continue to work with Health Canada and other federal partners, first nations, and aboriginal groups to help first nations and northern communities find ways to develop and maintain healthy lifestyles. We need to continue to work in partnership towards solutions that draw upon ideas from communities and individuals at the local level to ensure that we have sustainable and healthy communities.

With that, I thank you for giving me the opportunity and the time for this presentation.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lui Temelkovski]

Thank you very much.

Now we will continue with Mr. Hutton.

[Scott Hutton, Associate Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning. My name is Scott Hutton. I am associate executive director, broadcasting, at the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission. I am here today with Martine Vallee, our director of English pay and specialty television and social policy in broadcasting. Also with us today is Linda Nagel, president and chief executive officer at Advertising Standards Canada.

Thank you for your invitation to appear before you once again to talk about the commission's role regarding food advertising to children. We understand we have been invited to speak to recommendations 8 and 9 of the committee's report, “Healthy Weights for Healthy Kids”. We will also respond to the questions that were addressed to us by the committee in our presentation.

The CRTC is an independent public authority that oversees the broadcasting and telecommunications industries in Canada. The Commission's mandate, as outlined in the Broadcasting Act, is to regulate and supervise Canada's broadcasting system in a manner that contributes to the cultural, social and economic objectives set out in the legislation. This includes ensuring that the system serves children—by fostering their participation through appropriate programming and ensuring their protection from inappropriate material and behaviour.

The Commission is sensitive to the role that broadcasting, and television in particular, plays in transmitting and influencing social values.

However, it is not the commission's role to prohibit advertising of certain products. It is our role to ensure that advertising is responsible, and by responsible, we mean it respects the special characteristics of a child audience, particularly the vulnerability and impressionability of children.

The commission is involved in the development and enforcements of broadcast codes. Such codes play a critical role in setting out industry standards and specific guidelines for programming and advertising. Broadcast codes are developed by the industry, sometimes at the request of the commission, and at other times they are initiated by the industry itself. In recognition of longstanding societal concerns about the potential for advertising to negatively impact children, the commission requires broadcasters to adhere to two industry codes regarding advertising content: the code for broadcast advertising of alcoholic beverages and the broadcast code for advertising to children. Of particular interest here is the broadcast code for advertising to children.

The Broadcast Code for Advertising to Children was created in 1971 by the Canadian Association of Broadcasters and the Canadian Advertising Foundation, now Advertising Standards Canada. The Commission has required broadcasters to adhere to the Code as a condition of licence since 1974.

Advertising Standards Canada plays a major role in the administration of the code in that all advertising to children must be reviewed and pre-cleared by the ASC before it can be broadcast. The code establishes specific criteria about what can and cannot be communicated or depicted in children's broadcast advertising.

Among other things, the broadcast code for advertising to children prohibits the use of puppets, persons, and characters well known to children or featured on children's programs to endorse or personally promote products, premiums, or services. It also contains clauses to ensure that children are not unduly pressured to buy, or have their parents buy, particular products.

Additionally, the code limits the scheduling of commercial messages during children's programs. Clause 11 states that, “Children's advertising must not encourage or portray a range of values that are inconsistent with the moral, ethical or legal standards of contemporary Canadian society.”

Advertising Standards Canada has created five interpretive guidelines pertaining to clause 11 of the code in the last three years. The guidelines address the advertising of food products to children, and were developed in response to growing societal concerns about the impact of such advertising on their health.

Two of these guidelines were implemented in September 2007. These guidelines are used by the ASC to evaluate food and beverage advertisements targeted to children under 12, as part of the pre-clearance process that all broadcast ads must go through in order to air in Canada.

Taken together, these guidelines prohibit ads for food products directed at children that are inconsistent with the Food and Drugs Act and regulations or with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency's guide to food labelling and advertising. They encourage responsible use of the advertised product, including responsible portions. They prevent the discouragement or disparagement of healthy lifestyle choices or the consumption of healthy foods recommended in Canada's food guide to healthy eating and other Health Canada nutrition policies for children.

We have copies of the five interpretive guidelines with us today for your information.

The Broadcast Code for Advertising to Children operates alongside efforts to use the power of broadcasting to connect with young audiences in a positive way, and to promote healthy living. In April 2007, Concerned Children's Advertisers launched a campaign. This is an independent group of broadcast and corporate partners that produce and use advertising. It is supported through a partnership with the ASC and Heritage Canada.

The goal of the group's most recent campaign, “Long Live Kids”, is to motivate and inspire kids to make smart choices about food and physical activity. According to data from Concerned Children's Advertisers, 96% of children were reached at least once by the latest public service announcement, and feedback has been positive.

More detailed data on the effectiveness of this campaign will be available in March 2008.

Of course, if a further review by the government yields evidence demonstrating a need for further action within our mandate, the CRTC will act accordingly.

Thank you for your attention. We would be pleased to answer any questions.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lui Temelkovski]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hutton.

If you could table those five interpretive guidelines with the clerk, we'd appreciate that. Thank you.

We'll start our questions with Madame Kadis for seven minutes.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, everybody.

First let me say I am disappointed in the government's response. I do not feel it has been significantly identified as a national priority, and the ramifications, which have been referred to by some of our guests in terms of Long Live Kids, will not benefit significantly, in my opinion, from the government response.

It seems to be a lot of rehashed initiatives, some very positive, some very worthy. We need I think new and stronger leadership and direction and funding to turn the tide and reverse the trend of childhood obesity, not only for the aboriginal population but for our Canadian children population as well.

Regarding the children's fitness tax credit, what we've talked about here is that this is going to be, in the government's opinion, one way, one component, to help reverse this serious trend. What I'm interested to know is, how will you address the fact that there will still be barriers for many children, socio-economic barriers? They just won't be able to participate. You have to have the money up front, of course, before you get the credit. How do we know we can encourage more children?

How will you be monitoring that, so that it's not just the children who are doing it, which is a positive thing, but new children as a result of this particular, what I'd consider, small measure? How will this be followed through? Will we study the weights of the children? How will this be effective in a substantive way to reverse the trend of childhood obesity and help to enhance the health and well-being of Canadian children?

[Sean Keenan, Senior Chief, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

The tax credit itself was introduced to encourage families to enrol their children in activities, physical activities that comprise a high level of cardiovascular activity, to encourage them to provide them with some funding. By itself, the tax credit will provide an additional incentive for those families, but we wouldn't be able to surmise, from the tax information we receive, the changes in the weights, how that has an impact on individual children, but we'll be able to tell from the credit and from the information we receive on the uptake of the credit what the value of the credit is and what that means in terms of an increase in children participating in physical fitness activities.

From a Department of Finance point of view, we wouldn't be able to take that information and determine how that's impacting individual children per se.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

I'm concerned also, Mr. Chair, that the effectiveness will not be evaluated for five years. I think if they're going to put forward an initiative, and there is an interest in significantly helping the serious issue of childhood obesity, then we need to have a plan, at least. I don't in any way think this is nearly adequate in stemming the tide, but at least we'd like to see some accountability in here, not have it evaluated in five years' time. I think that's far too long. This is too serious an issue, and the implications are too serious for our children.

We need to know what this is doing in terms of the issue of childhood obesity. Are more children participating as a result of the children's fitness tax credit, or is it the same children? This needs to be tracked to have any value.

Do you not think we should be doing this in a shorter timeline? Do you feel we should be using this in a way that can have some positive impact on our children and their health, or just as a tax credit? Tax credits are tax credits. To me, this should carry the accountability component and give us some statistics. That's something this committee is looking to do from this report, so we can have a positive reversal trend.

[Sean Keenan]

The tax credit itself is only one component. It is a single initiative to encourage families to enrol their children in physical fitness activities.

Following Budget 2006, there was a committee that was formed, the Expert Panel for the Children's Fitness Tax Credit, and they recommended additional changes to the fitness tax credit that was introduced in Budget 2006.

The committee itself recommended a review of the credit and its performance, but acknowledged that just given the way the credit works.... It takes effect for the 2007 tax year; therefore, families are going to receive a credit on their 2007 income tax forms that they will submit in 2008. The department will get some data at the end of 2008 to determine how much people have claimed. Very detailed data on individuals and how many children that we could potentially draw from would be available in 2009. That's for the first year. And then for 2008, to determine how that would have changed will take us another year.

The expert panel itself recognized that it would take at least four years to get two years' worth of tax data. Our intention, from a Department of Finance point of view, is to say the tax credit itself, as a single initiative, as part of a plan to encourage children to enrol in activities, will require the time to do a comparative analysis once the data becomes available.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

Again, there are so many children in our population, clearly, who would not be able to take advantage of that particular option and opportunity. And to in any way suggest that this is an initiative that will seriously fight, in a way that's substantive, the issue of childhood obesity in our Canadian population, I believe, is a false concept, particularly in the way it's been set up, Mr. Chair. We don't even know if more children, other than the children who have already participated, are participating. We won't know for several years. We can't afford to wait that long.

I really say, with great respect, that if we're going to have this initiative, accountability needs to be built into it. We need to hear back about whether this is in fact helping in this area, and we need to do so much more if we are going to actually have an impact, as other countries have, in actually reversing this serious trend. This is, as one of our other speakers mentioned, an issue of “long live our kids”. So, please, let's all keep that in mind. And whatever influence we all have, we encourage a much stronger leadership role by the federal government.

This committee certainly worked very hard on this issue in a very positive way, I felt, because we really had that great interest to ensure the longevity and quality of life of our children.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lui Temelkovski]

Thank you very much, Madam Kadis.

We'll go to Madam Gagnon.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question, which has to do with aboriginal health, is for the representatives of the Department of Finance. If I have time, I also have a question for the CRTC officials.

Under the Constitution, aboriginal health is the responsibility of the federal government. In the 2007 budget, $2.1 billion was allocated to aboriginals and there was $145 million for Quebec. But the royal commission had asked for $20 billion to help aboriginals live with more dignity and have a better quality of life.

Real changes need to be made for aboriginal first nations and the Inuit. I would like to know what part of the budget is set aside for administering aboriginal affairs. The entire federal contribution is just $2.1 billion.

How much is allocated to the communities? Some court challenges seem rather costly. We are far from the $20 billion called for by the commission.

May I ask my second question, which is for the CRTC?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lui Temelkovski]

Absolutely. Go ahead. Yes, it will save time. Thanks.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Quebec has refused to allow broadcast advertising aimed at children.

I am not sure whether you will be able to answer my question. I would like to know whether the absence of advertising intended for children may have a direct influence on falling obesity rates in Quebec. I know that here in Parliament, some members from other provinces would like to bring in the Quebec model. I would like to know if this model offers real answers.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lui Temelkovski]

Mr. Keenan.

[Sean Keenan]

I am responsible for the children's fitness tax credit, but I do not have the numbers for how much of that is allocated for aboriginals. I can provide them to the committee later.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

That being the case, representatives of the department of Indian Affairs can give us the numbers. I would like to know how much of that amount is allocated for these communities. I have not been to visit aboriginal communities, but people there have seen horror stories unfold on a daily basis.

If we want aboriginal people to adopt better eating habits and improve their quality of life, this money will not be enough to do it. I think that the government's action with respect to first nations was very unsatisfactory. Five years from now, other members may be sitting here at the health committee table, and the goals we wanted to achieve will not have been achieved.

[Robert Eyahpaise]

With respect to your question on the budget and the amount that goes to the programs, I will have to probably respond at a later date with the details, but I know that over the years our programs have been targeted more at the community level. We have tried to make the appropriate transfers, and a large bulk of it does go to the communities. I'm talking about funding that goes to other programs outside the food component of it. I'm talking about operations and programs and services in which we've had a promotion of the notion of self-government or else more local control; in these cases, a lot of our funding will go to the community level.

I can only give you one quick example of recent moneys we have been provided from the government for child and family services in Alberta. There, we were able to get $15.2 million. I'd say 99% of that will be going to first nations agencies and organizations. That's the sort of transfer that's taking place.

To provide greater detail on the food component, I'd probably have to defer to our finance people—we're part of the social program area. We will provide you with that more appropriate answer in a written response.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

I am not sure that the numbers I have are accurate, but they say that 40% of the funds are allocated to the administration of the department of Indian Affairs. You many not be able to provide an answer this morning because you do not have the figures with you. Nevertheless, it is clear that these funds do not really go to the communities.

I think that the government is relying too heavily on data about the future, that is, three, four or five years from now. Between now and then, no course adjustment is in the works to really help aboriginal communities live decently with dignity and respect. I would like the committee to complete its initial study of another file, and then go see what is really going on in aboriginal communities. That is the federal government's responsibility.

Thank you.

Do we turn things over to the CRTC to respond now?

[Scott Hutton]

To answer your question, we do not have any data other than what we submitted last time. We are working with people in the department of health. I think we worked with them during the interdepartmental consultations following the report and the recommendation for a thorough review of the situation, not only in Quebec, but internationally. This study is now in progress, and we will be learning more about it during a seminar to be held next March. I believe people from the department of health told you about it last Tuesday.

At the moment, there is less obesity among young Quebeckers than among their counterparts from other Canadian provinces. The national average is about 26%; in Quebec, that number is 23%. Those numbers are from 2004. Like the committee, we found that since the ban on publicity aimed at children was brought into effect, rates of obesity increased among young people in Quebec faster than elsewhere in Canada. We therefore have reason to doubt the effectiveness of this measure.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lui Temelkovski]

Thank you, Madam Gagnon.

If any questions were asked for which there wasn't a full answer, please send the answer to our clerk and we will distribute it to all the members.

We'll move now to Ms. Wasylycia-Leis.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairperson.

Thanks to all of you for appearing today. I want to start with folks from INAC and look at the children's fitness tax credit. Given that it's an income-based program, you need to pay taxes. How many aboriginal families do you think--and break it down--both on reserve and off reserve would benefit from the children's fitness tax credit?

[Robert Eyahpaise]

Again I will have to get that answer, because unfortunately we don't have any experts here who deal with the children's fitness tax credit. I don't know if our colleagues from Finance could help us with that.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

But would you at least comment on the belief by many people in the field that this tax credit will not reach very many aboriginal people because they either don't have the income to pay for it, it's not a refundable tax credit, or there may not be programs available to put the money towards and therefore they would be ineligible?

Did you have any input into this program as members of INAC, and did you have any concerns?

Yesterday or the day before we asked officials how many aboriginal communities would have recreation facilities or community centres. The guess was made of maybe 50%. Do you have an accurate assessment?

[Robert Eyahpaise]

Through our infrastructure programs, the department supports recreational centres, community centres, and cultural centres. To date so far--and this is a global figure--we have 732 such centres across the country. But I'll have to get the actual breakdown on how many of them are defined as recreational, cultural, and community centres.

A large number of the communities do have such centres. We have 732 of them, so that would probably equate to almost one centre per community. But how they're used depends on the communities themselves, in terms of whether they have cultural and recreational programs...and whether they are used to house gyms and fitness centres. So that's the sort of detail I will have to get for you.