Health Committee on Dec. 6th, 2007

[Sean Keenan]

With respect to the recommendations on the children's fitness tax credit, as I mentioned earlier, there was a question on establishing a benchmark for participation in sports by children and youth, which is not really a tax question, but there are some data via the Canadian Fitness and Lifestyle Research Institute's physical activity monitor, Statistics Canada's general social survey, and Sport Canada. So there are some data available on children participating in activity.

In terms of the uptake of the children's fitness tax credit, as I mentioned earlier, 2007 is the first year of the tax credit, so we will receive data on how much is being claimed for the purposes of the tax credit by the end of 2008. So we will meet the recommendation concerning the timeline.

In terms of establishing the effectiveness of the credit itself, we would need more than a single year's worth of data in order to say--

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

The recommendation was for five years.

[Sean Keenan]

The recommendation was for five years, so we will have more than one year in about four years' time. So we would be able to meet the benchmark timelines established by the committee.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you.

[Scott Hutton]

The CRTC regulates broadcasting. Broadcasting on radio stations and on television stations we're familiar with. There are also forms of pay and specialty television--the TSNs of the world, and Discovery, etc. We regulate all of the Canadian services. We also regulate the companies that, as broadcasters, distribute signals. We regulate the cable companies that distribute television signals in Canada, and we regulate the satellite companies that distribute television and radio signals here in Canada. So our rules and regulations apply to, obviously, all of those, but in particular the licensed broadcasters, the radio and television.

What does seep in across the border are the regular airwaves of stations in Detroit. They are certainly seen in Windsor without any distribution, so we have to trust our American friends, our neighbours to the south, to act responsibly in that area. They are not subject to our rules. The same thing goes for the services that are, for example, distributed by Canadian cable companies or Canadian satellite services that emanate out of the United States or anywhere else in the world for that matter. They are subject to the rules in their home countries, not to our rules.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you.

[Robert Eyahpaise]

Finally, on the healthy food and physical activity standards and programs in schools, I think in our last presentation, when we were here in October, we mentioned specific examples of schools and first nations communities that were actively taking health and physical program standards, like those in other jurisdictions--for instance, provincial programs--and incorporating them into their communities. That is really an ongoing type of work that takes place likely at the community level, where they are trying to at least raise the standards that other jurisdictions are undertaking, and also keep in mind the advice they would get from the federal government, from Health Canada, for example, on what an appropriate measure would be. So that sort of activity does go on very specifically in certain communities for sure.

One of the other things, though, is that our education program authorities right now are being renewed. This would be one of the concepts that would be discussed at that level, but those are going through the approval authority renewal process at this time, so I would probably need to get the education people to comment on that.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Is that ongoing right now?

[Robert Eyahpaise]

Yes.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lui Temelkovski]

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Monsieur Malo.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to begin with a more general comment. We heard witnesses on Tuesday, and we are hearing witnesses today, Thursday, talk about the government's response to the committee's report on childhood obesity. Most of the comments I'm hearing relate to actions taken in the past. Many witnesses have talked about various programs designed to meet the current and past requirements of various departments and agencies.

Despite all this, Mr. Chair, it is clear that obesity rates among aboriginals and the general population are skyrocketing. I don't know whether the various agencies and departments have understood the urgency that we tried to emphasize in the report. I would really like to have heard the witnesses say that they understand the urgency and that in the weeks and months to come, they will put forward a number of innovative proposals to fight childhood obesity. So far this morning, Mr. Chair, I have been disappointed.

I have some questions for the people from the CRTC as well as for the people from Advertising Standards Canada because this morning, I, like everyone else, received a copy of the children's advertising code. I found it interesting, but why limit this to children under 12? Teenagers are just as vulnerable, and they are not protected by the code. Why did the people responsible for this code decide to set the limit at 12 years?

[Scott Hutton]

Improvements have been made since the code was first developed because of concerns about programming for children, who are the most vulnerable audience. That is the main reason we decided to say that children under 12 are more vulnerable to advertising than teenagers are.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Nevertheless, we know that our teenagers are very aware of style and other social phenomena that encourage them to consume. We know that today's teenagers, as a segment of the population, consume a lot. We know it, advertisers know it, and they take advantage of it.

Will we ever have advertising regulations or some kind of code that takes into account this segment of the population, adolescents, who are very sensitive to advertising and style?

[Scott Hutton]

The code applies to children under the age of 12. We also develop regulations for stations that specialize in programming for children and teenagers. Advertising regulations apply to all of their programming. We do more than just draft the code.

In this case, our system is backed by licensing conditions. There is also a regulatory system run by industry representatives in partnership with us. This applies to all of our domains, not just advertising.

For teenagers who are a bit older and therefore somewhat less vulnerable and better able to understand, we have put forward programs to help them understand advertising.

Public service announcements—programs developed by broadcasters, the Standards Council of Canada or Concerned Children's Advertisers—are broadcast to help children and teenagers—those over 12—understand advertising and become informed consumers.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Since the code was implemented, have you rejected many ads before they could be broadcast? Do you receive a lot of complaints about messages that have already been broadcast? Advertisers are pretty smart people. They read the code and figure out ways to get around it so they can advertise and sell their products. They want to sell lots of stuff, and I think that they manage to. Once again this year, during the Christmas season, people will go over budget to give their family and friends things they need.

Can you provide a short answer to this question?

[Scott Hutton]

The CRTC receives very few complaints because ads are pre-approved. I could count the number of complaints we have received on one hand, but I will give Linda the opportunity to explain what she does.

[Linda Nagel]

In terms of the children's clearance process, it really is the most stringent advertising review that we have in Canada, and perhaps around the world. As a matter of fact, we've been a model.

The Children's Clearance Committee, which includes both industry and parent representatives, meets every other week to review finished commercials to make sure they comply with the provisions of the code. If the committee determines that the commercials meet the criteria in the children's code, then the commercial is assigned a clearance approval number. That means it's been approved twice: once to make sure it meets the provisions of Canada's food laws and regulations and the second to ensure that the Children's Clearance Committee has approved it. If they don't approve it and if it doesn't have a number on it, then the broadcasters will not air it.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Are there many like that? Can you tell me how many ads are rejected before they ever air?

[Linda Nagel]

We have some, but what happens is because it's very expensive to make a commercial, advertisers of course want to make sure they're going to meet the provisions of the children's code. They come in and they meet with our technical specialists, our analysts, and they work on their commercials in advance in a concept stage, to make sure they're going to meet the provisions of the code.

But there are lots of commercials--for example, commercials that are developed in other parts of the world--that sometimes advertisers might like to use in Canada that won't pass the test in Canada.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lui Temelkovski]

Merci, Monsieur Malo.

Now we'll move on to Mr. Fletcher.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming here today.

The questions have been very interesting. I'm a little bit concerned about some of the questions coming from the opposition--particularly from the NDP--as they seem to stereotype first nations people as people who don't pay taxes and therefore tax credits don't benefit them.

In fact, if tax credits are not effective, I wonder why the NDP representative from the Western Arctic, Denis Bevington, is calling for Ottawa to give northerners, especially aboriginals, a bigger tax break to help offset the higher and rising costs of living in the north. So obviously tax incentives do work for all Canadians, though it's agreed they're not the full answer.

I'm going to just ask three questions and then leave it up to the panellists to respond. My first question is about the fact that for the food program the funding has grown significantly over the last few years, from $29 million to $47 million. I'd like you to explain why that is, and it might be a good thing—I would just like to know.

Also, I'd like to know if you could explain the measures we are taking as a government to improve the conditions of families that are in lower socio-economic circumstances and their capacity to make healthier choices.

Finally, I want to ask you about something that has been topical and in the news of late. Schools provide, obviously, an important opportunity to deal with issues. And in particular around first nations issues, I wonder what is being done at the school level that falls within the federal jurisdiction.

Those are my questions.

[Andrew Lieff]

Thank you very much for the questions. I'll start off on your first question, which is what's happening with the rising costs of the program.

Essentially there are two major drivers of the costs of the food mail program, and one is demand for the food, which is a good thing. The more the demand goes up for healthy food means people in the north are actually consuming it, and this is essentially a healthy diet, so that's very positive.

Demand has been growing fairly rapidly and steadily for the program for a variety of reasons. Number one, population growth is often higher in these communities than in others. Number two, there are about 140 communities that are eligible for the program. About 77 use it extensively, and more eligible communities come on every year. The third thing is that people's consumption patterns are changing, partially due to the program and awareness, but also due to social and demographic situations happening in the north. For example, as certain traditional foods are becoming scarcer and more difficult to acquire, people need to shift to other sources. Advertising is also having a huge impact on children to encourage them towards southern foods as opposed to traditional foods.

I would also say that on the cost side, what is continually increasing are fuel costs of transporting the food from the south to the north. This committee and others will have seen a supplementary estimate pretty well every year for this program. One of the peculiarities of this program is that funding in the base of this department is $27.6 million, which is about half of what's required to deliver the program at existing levels without being required to increase the rates charged to shippers that would in turn increase the rates of food in these communities. What happens every year is we need to go through the approvals process and come before you, to Parliament, to seek the additional funding required to meet this increased demand and the rising costs, to stay at the same level we're at in terms of the level of subsidy per kilogram, if I can say it that way.

One of the things we're hoping to do in this review is frankly address this situation, so that we can see if there's an effective means of providing or supporting access to affordable food that can be funded on a sustainable basis.

I should mention that we appeared last week before your colleagues, the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, to go over the supplementary estimates. That's before the House right now, and that's seeking $20 million. We'll know in the near future whether Parliament decides to support the government's request in that regard.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

There are two other questions about the schools.

[Robert Eyahpaise]

Just to answer your question in terms of what's being done to improve the conditions, the lower socio-economic conditions, facing aboriginal people to make healthier choices, definitely from the social programs area, I think that's a very good question in terms of the overall health and well-being of a community. Of course, we're talking about childhood obesity here and the health factors, but definitely research has been showing that higher levels of education and economic development are most likely to lead to more improved and long-lasting results for the quality of life at the community level.

What we've done in our social program areas is to provide basic social services such as food, clothing, health, non-medical assistance for persons with functional limitations, for instance, at the community level, and support for family violence prevention programs. We try to carry these programs out to be reasonably comparable to provincial standards. We ask, how do we support a community so that they are equivalent to their counterparts outside of the reserve setting, for instance? With that, we try to provide the appropriate and adequate funding and support in key areas.

For instance, with the national child benefit reinvestment program, we have the early childhood development support and we have income assistance by which we're trying to streamline our welfare program, so that they are supporting communities at the appropriate level, but also trying to encourage them to enter into the labour market stream as well. There are a number of programs that we provide directly that try to address the social conditions and how to support them, so that they are measuring up to or at least getting close to provincial standards.

As I mentioned earlier, what we've tried to do as well is to be innovative in key areas, such as partnering with Health Canada, for instance, in suicide prevention, etc.